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January 6 could have faded for Republicans as a day they’d rather not talk about. But then six months later, Donald Trump landed on a story that’s become useful to him. He started talking about Ashli Babbitt, the woman who was fatally shot by a Capitol Police officer. Over a few weeks, Trump started spinning a new story: Babbitt was a martyr, and the people imprisoned for January 6 were political prisoners, and the villain was the Deep State, the same shady entity that denied him the presidency.

In this episode of We Live Here Now, we trace how Micki Witthoeft, the mother of Ashli Babbitt, got Trump’s attention and may have changed the course of history as a result. Witthoeft never had anything to do with politics before her daughter was killed. But by her constant presence at January 6 vigils and rallies, she managed to create a new reality.

This is the third episode of We Live Here Now , a six-part series about what happened when we found out that our new neighbors were supporting January 6 insurrectionists.

The following is a transcript of the episode:

Lauren Ober: I wonder what justice looks like and what happens if it doesn’t come.

Hanna Rosin: This is a question Lauren would ask Micki a lot.

Micki Witthoeft: I want to see somebody held accountable for my daughter’s death.

Nicole Reffitt: Exactly.

Witthoeft: You know, I want to see a lot of people held accountable for my daughter’s death and the way she’s been treated since then.

Ober: By whom?

Witthoeft: By people that consider her disposable.

Ober: What happens if no one is held accountable in a way that feels correct for you?

Witthoeft: Well, that’s a good question, Lauren. But I guess, then, I will just have to take my dying breath trying to bring that about.

Rosin: Micki has been in D.C., far from home, for a long time. She has four sons and two grandsons, one she barely knows because most of his life, she’s been 3,000 miles away on “Freedom Corner,” chasing this slippery justice—these somebodies to hold accountable, whatever “accountable” means. And then there’s Nicole.

Reffitt: Yeah, it looks like a very long road. My family is never going to be the same as they were prior to January 6 ever again. Micki’s family is never going to be the same. Ashli’s never coming back. But being here in D.C. and seeing what that looks like, we ask ourselves that all the time. You know, like, What are we doing? We say that a lot to each other.

Rosin: Lauren and I have that same question. What did they get done here? Seen one way, Micki Witthoeft and Nicole Reffitt have spent 700-plus evenings far away from their families to organize a small, fringey protest at the back of the D.C. jail. But seen another way, these two women diverted the course of history.

Or maybe both are true, because this is a very weird political era where fringe can merge with power, and suddenly the world is upside down.

I’m Hanna Rosin.

Ober: And I’m Lauren Ober. And from The Atlantic, this is: We Live Here Now.

In this episode, we try and tease out how Micki’s personal mission and Donald Trump’s political mission collided with each other. Warning: Hanna and I do not land in the same place on this one, and we have our very own hot-mic moment debating things. So lucky for you.

In her previous life, Micki wasn’t all that political. But almost as soon as she learned her daughter died, politics came up. On January 7, she gave an interview to Fox 5 in San Diego.

[Music]

Witthoeft: I would like to invite Donald J. Trump to say her name out loud, to acknowledge the passing of his loudest and proudest supporter, Ashli Elizabeth Babbitt.

Rosin: It’s revealing that at her saddest, Micki thought to call on Trump. You can hear that and think, Maybe there’s a hint of a possibility here that she thinks he should take some responsibility for Ashli’s death.

There was another woman who died on January 6 at the Capitol: Rosanne Boyland, a Trump supporter who was around Ashli’s age. She was crushed by the mob just outside the Capitol. The day after her death, her brother-in-law squarely and publicly blamed her death on Trump and QAnon for leading her astray.

Micki, too, could have decided that Trump spread the lie that the election was stolen to soothe his wounded ego, which lured her daughter to D.C. and got her killed. But she didn’t. Something moved her in the opposite direction. And for thousands—who knows, millions—of people, the meaning of January 6 started to shift along with her.

Trump didn’t know Micki’s name on January 7, because back then, he was on the defensive. There were reports that some Republican leaders were going to ask him to resign.That never happened. Instead, they settled at: How about we just forget this whole January 6th thing? Just don’t mention it.

And then around July 4, 2021, in a series of speeches, candidate Trump took a bold left turn—actually, a right turn.

[Crowd noise]

Donald Trump: Wow, that’s a lot of people. Thank you.

Rosin: It started, as best as I can tell, at a rally. It was July 3rd—nearly seven months after the Capitol riots. It was a Saturday in Sarasota, Florida. Trump is hitting all his usual rally points, and then you can hear him reach for something new.

Trump: The Republicans have to get themselves a real leader. You got some great senators, but they have to get themselves a real leader. And by the way, who shot Ashli Babbitt? Who shot Ashli Babbitt?

Rosin: With an investigation into January 6 just getting underway, Trump tried a new tack.

Trump: Who? Who shot Ashli Babbitt? I spoke to her mother the other day. An incredible woman. She’s just devastated like it happened yesterday. And it’s a terrible thing. Shot, boom, there was no reason for it. Who shot Ashli Babbitt? It’s got to be released.

Rosin: Four days later, he was talking about it again, this time at a press conference in New Jersey. At this point, the investigation was still not releasing the name of Michael Byrd, the Capitol Police officer who shot Ashli.

Trump: But the person that shot Ashli Babbitt—boom, right through the head. Just boom. There was no reason for that. They’ve already written it off. They said, That case is closed.

Rosin: She was shot in the shoulder, not the head. But Trump wasn’t interested in details here. They’ve already written off Ashli’s murder. They said the case is closed. Who was “they”? Of course, the same people who stole the election.

Five days after that, Trump is on Fox News:

Trump: Who shot Ashli Babbitt? People want to know. And why?

Rosin: Now, the Big Lie could easily have faded away—just been recorded in history books as that moment when a man named Donald Trump tried to subvert the peaceful transfer of power. But phew—democracy is resilient. The Department of Justice closed its investigation into Michael Byrd and said there was no reason to press charges. Problem solved.

But that’s not what happened. Ashli’s death became the most direct and vivid way to give the Big Lie new life. Trump invoked Ashli at rallies and on TV and in press conferences. He had landed on a powerful new strategy, and he worked it for the better part of a year.

Ober: Eventually, Micki landed in D.C., and within a month, she and Trump, who had both been talking about Ashli separately, were now talking about Ashli together. It happened in September 2022, when Trump called into the vigil Micki was hosting that night.

Witthoeft: You’re on livestream with different countries and our crowd outside. Thank you for calling, and you’re on. Go.

Trump: Okay. Well, Micki, it’s an honor to be with you. And to everybody listening, it’s a terrible thing that has happened to a lot of people that are being treated very, very unfairly. We love Ashli, and it was so horrible what happened to her. Micki, you’re asking me to just speak to everybody, but we cannot allow this to happen to our country. So God bless everybody. We are working very hard.

Witthoeft: Thank you for calling, President Trump. I know the men inside appreciate you, as I do as well.

Trump: And say hello to everybody.

Rosin: This is the moment their missions collided. Micki had asked for Trump to say her daughter’s name out loud, and he did. He said, “We love Ashli.” So when Micki and Nicole say to themselves, What did we get done on Freedom Corner?, thisis a moment they can point to.

But many a grieving American mother has received a call from a powerful politician. It can be just a fleeting moment of political theater, or it can lead to something much bigger. In this case, I would argue that it’s the latter. And I can back that up based on what Lauren saw when she followed Micki to the biggest event on the conservative political calendar.

[Music]

Ober: In February of this year, I tagged along with Micki and the “Eagle’s Nest” crew to CPAC, the Conservative Political Action Conference. If Washington is Hollywood for ugly people, then CPAC is its Sundance. It’s been the premier Republican convention for the past 50 years. It usually happens just outside D.C., in suburban Maryland, and it’s become a place for conservative candidates to dry run new messaging.

Witthoeft: I think the check-in line is going to be a freaking zoo, because we don’t yet have our badges.

Ober: Yeah, but everything’s, like, electronic, so it seemed like they have enough spots.

Witthoeft: Yeah, but there’s a lot of old people, like me, that can’t work our shit.

Ober: Of course, the first thing I wanted to do when we got to CPAC was visit the vendor hall.

Ober (on tape): So now I’m in, like, Vendor Village area.

Ober: And I was not disappointed. There were folks hawking MAGA hammocks and vibration plates that shake your cellulite away and candles that smelled like freedom, allegedly. The drag queen Lady Maga was there, waving adoringly to her fan. And did I catch a glimpse of Mr. MyPillow himself, Mike Lindell? Yes, I did.

Ober: Also on offer—

Vendor: You wanna play some pinball?

Ober: I’m terrible at it.

Vendor: That’s okay.

Ober: But sure. Why not?

[Game noises]

Ober: A January 6 pinball game—

[Game noises]

Ober: What do I get if I win?

Vendor: You get a high score.

[Laughter]

Ober: —where I could get points for storming the Capitol.

Vendor: Save America. You made it to the Capitol.

Ober: Oh, like January 6.

[Game noises]

Ober: Okay, I wasn’t there to play Insurrection Pinball. I was there to observe.

As I followed Micki around the convention hall, it was clear to me that she was here to play a role. She was the living, breathing mother of the J6 martyr, complete with the costume: a T-shirt that read “ashli babbitt, murdered by capitol police, january 6, 2021.” Plenty of people recognized her. They did those sad, little pity smiles and asked for a handshake or a hug or a photo. More than a few people approached Micki and asked if they could pray for her.

Stranger 1: Dear Lord, thank you for this woman that’s here. And thank you for her bravery, and for her taking this season of pain and turning it into something that’s for your glory, Lord. And we know that you are victorious, and you will surround her with your comfort and your peace, and you will infuse her with strength, and just bless this whole weekend and every interaction she has. And we know that all is done for the glory of you. In Jesus’s name, amen.

Witthoeft: Thank you, ladies.

Stranger 1: You’re welcome. Good work. Good work.

Witthoeft: Thank y’all.

Ober: Three-plus years into playing this role, I could see it was wearing on Micki. She looked exhausted. Throughout the conference, stranger after stranger approached Micki.

Stranger 2: I’m so sorry for your loss. These people will be held accountable.

Witthoeft: I sure hope so.

Stranger 2: Justice will be served.

Witthoeft: Thank you, sir. I appreciate that. I hope so.

Ober: Micki is gracious about it, but I’ve been around her long enough by now to know that there are other things bubbling under the surface.

Ober: This happens again and again and again throughout the three-day convention. And Micki is gracious about it, but I’ve been around her long enough by now to know that there are other things bubbling under the surface.

Ober: Is it tiring when people come up to you and they say, Oh, I’m so sorry? Like—

Witthoeft: That’s not tiring. There are certain phrases that I find offensive. And people don’t mean them offensively, but sometimes they—

Ober: Like what?

Witthoeft: Like, the one that always gets me is: It could have been me. I don’t like that when people say that to me. My response is, Okay, thanks. Nice to meet you. Bye.

Ober: Right.

Witthoeft: I mean, I try not to be rude, because I know people don’t mean it in a way to be offensive. It’s recognition of Ashli’s sacrifice on a certain level. So I don’t want to be offensive back at them, because I don’t feel like they mean to be offensive to me. So I just, you know, try to be as polite as possible and move on.

Ober: Right. Right.

Witthoeft: Try not to say, Yeah? Well, I wish it was, and it wasn’t my daughter, because that’s not appropriate either. But the truth is, I wish it was anybody else. So you know, I don’t know how you respond to that as—

Coffee! Big-ass sign right there.

Ober: Okay, that conversation ended a bit abruptly. Anyway, on the last day of CPAC, Hanna came, and we met up in the press section, which looked like it was more filled with right-wing TikTokers than actual traditional journalists. Hanna and I were eating snacks and waiting for Trump’s speech to start when something familiar came over the loudspeaker.

J6 Choir: O say can you see, by the dawn’s early light—

Ober: My first thought was, What is this garbage recording? Surely, the Trump campaign could have found a higher-quality rendition of our national anthem.

But then we realized why the song sounded like that. This was sung at the D.C. jail, the J6 prison choir, which Micki played every night at the vigil over the loudspeakers.

Trump: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

Ober: Mixed with Donald Trump reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.

Rosin: This was the fight song for the “Patriot Pod” prisoners, the musical backdrop to Micki’s dream about Ashli. And now the possible next future president was taking it up as his own.

Trump: I stand before you today, not only as your past and hopefully future president, but as a proud political dissident. I am a dissident.

Rosin: And in this speech—the darkest one of his campaign so far—he vowed to get revenge.

Trump: For hardworking Americans, November 5 will be our new liberation day. But for the liars and cheaters and fraudsters and censors and imposters who have commandeered our government, it will be their judgment day! Their judgment day.

[Crowd cheers]

Rosin: It would be an exaggeration to say Micki orchestrated this political moment. After all, she’d never really been into politics. Her San Diego life was just fine without mainlining Fox News. Maybe the more accurate way to say it is that between her dream and her enduring grief, she manifested this moment—where Trump and the J6ers became one—where Trump said over and over that if he became president, he would pardon the J6ers, basically, magically fulfilling Ashli’s vision in Micki’s dream.

Ober: The day after CPAC, we ran into Micki while walking the dogs and asked her what she thought of Trump’s speech. Apparently, she hadn’t seen it. The Eagle’s Nest crew left and went home before Trump even took the stage. When the politicians come in the room, she said, that’s when the bullshit starts.

Rosin: So the Micki–MAGA relationship—it’s pretty complicated. That’s after the break.

[Break]

Ober: If you ask Micki if she thinks all the jailed J6ers should be pardoned for their actions at the Capitol, her answer is probably not going to be the one you expect. More than once, Micki has told me that not everyone acted like a Boy Scout that day. So the more violent ones—or the folks who brought implements, like pitchforks, say—deserved to be punished. So Trump saying he’s gonna pardon all J6ers doesn’t really move her much. But she sees the utility of Trump talking about January 6. She can use him to bring attention to her cause, just like he has used her daughter as a campaign prop.

There are other things about Micki that don’t necessarily track with MAGA lunacy. She thinks that healthcare shouldn’t be tied to employment and that there should be term limits for judges and lawmakers. She’s pretty pro-LGBTQ, since Ashli was bisexual. And once, we had a five-minute conversation about gun control where we almost—almost—came to a shared conclusion.

Now, that doesn’t mean that Micki is turning blue any time soon. She’s more like a populist libertarian who often says impolitic things, even harmful things—like the time right before I met her, when she said this about Lieutenant Michael Byrd.

Witthoeft: Michael Byrd needs to swing from the end of a rope, along with Nancy Pelosi.

Ober: Byrd is Black. Micki is white. Which she discussed when she brought up the comment to me.

Witthoeft: You know, I mean, there’s much talk about me saying Michael Byrd should be swinging from the end of a rope. It’s saying, Oh, look at her. She’s calling for a lynching. I am not calling for a lynching.

Ober: Her explanation wasn’t exculpatory by any means, and no one should be calling for anyone’s execution. But I wanted to hear Micki out. So we’re gonna let this run because she landed in a place I didn’t see coming.

Witthoeft: A hanging and a lynching are two different things. A hanging occurs after a trial and you’re pronounced guilty, and your ass gets hung. That’s how it happens. It’s happened. And it’s happened not just to Black people, specifically. Lynchings—most of them are Black people. But hangings—hangings are retribution for something that you got coming to you. And they used to do it right on the battlefield. If you got convicted of treason, they would either shoot you or hang you. And that’s the way I meant that. And I said it about Nancy Pelosi too, and she’s about as white-bread as you come, which is another thing when people start talking about white privilege. I am not that white-privilege person. I have never had money. Ashli doesn’t come from white privilege. She worked hard for anything she ever had, and so has my family.

Ober: Sure. I have worked hard for everything I have, and I also have an enormous amount of privilege, largely due to my race and economic status.

Witthoeft: I understand that Black people have been treated in a different way than white people have in this country for a long time—well, forever. But I thought that we were making huge strides in that, until, you know—until I came to this city, actually. But what I will say is: Being the parent of a child that was murdered under color of authority.

Ober: Yeah.

Witthoeft: It does make me—’cause you don’t know until you know—it does make me identify somewhat with Black and brown mothers who have been going through this for decades, because their children have been murdered under color of authority without any avenue for retribution, for years.

Ober: You can see how a Black mother whose child was killed by police would forever mistrust authority. Micki landed in the same place. Only for her, the mistrust was supercharged.

Witthoeft: When they killed Ashli, they took a lot more from me than my daughter. They took my whole belief in the system that runs America from me. Even though, you know, It’s a little bad; it’s mostly good. I don’t believe that anymore. And so in that process, I don’t know what I believe them capable of. Is it eating babies and drinking their blood? I don’t think so, but I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know what they’re up to. I really don’t know what they’re up to.

[Music]

Ober: Years from now, when Micki and Nicole ask themselves the question, What did we actually accomplish in D.C.? they might come up with an answer that has nothing to do with Trump or Justice for January 6. These two women who had only ever known themselves as wives and mothers learned they could whisper in a president’s ear and whip up the media and become impossible to ignore. And they could’ve only done it because they walked out of that courtroom together, hand in hand.

One of the things I’ve been most surprised about is the depth of their friendship, which is only a couple of years old. Since Ashli died, Micki can barely sleep. She’s had panic that takes her breath away and nightmares that make her weep. She can’t bear to sleep in a room by herself. So she and Nicole share the basement of the Eagle’s Nest, their mattresses pushed head to head. Oliver, the dog, plops himself in between the two of them like a canine headboard. Just hearing Nicole and her dog softly breathe is a comfort to Micki.

Witthoeft: I’ve bonded with Nicole in ways that I’ve bonded with very few people. There’s really nothing about me that Nicole doesn’t—I mean, I’m sure there’s things, but there’s nothing I wouldn’t say to her. Maybe that’s because we sleep head to head, and we yap all night, but I don’t know.

Ober: Micki had no idea who Nicole Reffitt was when she showed up at Guy Reffitt’s sentencing in August of 2022. But their connection was almost instantaneous.

Witthoeft: If you believe in love at first sight, which I don’t really do—I believe in sexual attraction at first sight, but I don’t know about love at first sight. But I think if that’s possible, then friendship at first sight is. And when I first saw Nicole, like I said, I had never met her, and I knew instantly who she was. And she just had this defiant, “strong-ass woman” look on her face, and I just knew she was somebody I could be friends with.

Ober: There was one moment early on in their living together that kind of sealed the deal for Micki.

Witthoeft: But when I knew that we would be friends forever, oddly enough—why do you always make me cry, Lauren? Shit. It was the day my dog died. Because she, you know—I was on the couch with Fuggles, and I couldn’t make it happen. I was like, I just—I wanted to call.

Ober: But she couldn’t. So Nicole called the vet and had Fuggles put down. That small kindness meant everything to Micki.

Witthoeft: I just thought at that minute that I truly loved her. I do.

[Music]

Ober: Now, because Nicole and Micki are often seen together, and because of that one hand-holding scene after Guy’s sentencing, the online haters have had a field day. Someone made a music video that mashed up their voices from the vigil with overtly sexual innuendo and patriotic imagery. It’s too crass for me to play for you here, but I’m sure you know how to Google, if you’re interested.

Recently, someone sent Nicole a cardboard mailing tube that said the words “oversizeddildos.com” plastered on the side. The tube was empty. Right after the mailer arrived, Micki texted me a photo. “Did you prank us?” she wrote. For the record, I did not. She wrote back: “I told you I hate it when the left is funny. There wasn’t anything in the canister. More empty promises.”

Ober: After I had a good laugh about the whole situation, I pushed Nicole to try to put a name to the love that they have for each other.

Ober: A lot of people’s intimate relationships can’t be defined. And so I could ask you, Okay, is it like you feel like a sister bond?

Reffitt: It’s more.

Ober: Is it like you feel, like—right. Like a—

Reffitt: It’s not sexual, but it is more.

Ober: Yeah. Like an intimate-partner bond.

Reffitt: Oh yeah. It’s definitely an intimate-partner bond.

Ober: Right.

Reffitt: I don’t even know what kind of love that must be, because I love Micki more than a friendship love. But you know, there’s not a lot of the sexual aspect of it. But there’s intimacy.

Ober: Mm-hmm. What does “intimacy” mean?

Reffitt: I don’t know. You can have intimate moments with someone while being fully clothed. You know, like, you can share very close feelings without touching anyone. So those are intimate moments, I think.

Ober: Like, give me an example.

Reffitt: Well, I’m not gonna tell you shit. I’m already telling you all this. I know, but like—

Ober: No. Because I’m just trying to understand.

Reffitt: I mean, I think this is—well, this is a level of intimacy. It’s a level that we’re having.

Ober: You and me?

Reffitt: Yeah. We’re being intimate. I mean, I’m being intimate with you.

Ober: Right. It’s not an equal exchange.

Reffitt: Exactly. Like, you’re not being intimate with me, but I absolutely am being intimate with you. So I’m being very vulnerable.

Ober: Mm-hmm.

Reffitt: But Micki is reciprocal. I mean, like, we’re sharing that.

Ober: Mm-hmm.

[Music]

Rosin: Would you say that you guys were friends?

Ober: I guess it depends on what your version of friend is. No. I mean, we’re neighbors.

Rosin: I pressed Lauren a lot about this. Obviously, she was a journalist, and it was her job to spend time with these guys. But had she become, like, friends friends with them? Is that a good thing? Is it dangerous? Sometimes we had fights about it. This one, for example—it’s the hot-mic moment we promised you.

Rosin: I feel so differently than you do about this. I don’t spend this much time with them. What I notice at the vigil is not what you notice at the vigil. I don’t think it’s fucking cute at all.

Ober: You think I think it’s cute? No. It’s fucking weird. But I also don’t think that it’s, like, shredding—

Rosin: No. I don’t think it’s weird. I think it’s absolutely destructive.

Ober: But, see, I don’t have any proof that it is. Like I don’t have proof that it’s destructive. I don’t have any notion that it’s any—

Rosin: How about Trump playing that song at Waco, Texas?

Ober: Of course, but it wasn’t about the J6—

Rosin: Who got that song into the public consciousness? Micki.

Ober: No, she didn’t, actually. She had nothing to do with it.

Rosin: Lauren, we just feel differently. To me, it’s like, I think Micki is a lovely, interesting, complicated person. And I think this mission that she’s on in D.C. is absolutely destructive.

Ober: Show me proof of destruction. That is not new. They have a platform—

Rosin: Okay, Micki didn’t cause it. Micki didn’t bring it into being. Micki created an audience for it. She brings Trump to them. She brings these politicians to them.

Ober: But it’s not—

Rosin: So you have to account for the things that Micki is supporting and laying out the red carpet for. Like, her ideology is meaningful.

Rosin: I dug in. This fight went on for, like, an hour and a half more. And by the end of it, nothing was resolved.

In our next episode: Lauren gets even closer to the action, and she asks herself whether she ruined a J6er’s life.

Marie Johnatakis: It was really surprising that they took him into custody then. And I just remember thinking, like, He’s not a danger. He’s been out this whole time. Can you please just let us? You know, we just need a little more help.

Ober: That’s on the next episode of We Live Here Now.

[Music]

Ober: We Live Here Now is a production of The Atlantic. The show was reported, written, and executive produced by me, Lauren Ober. Hanna Rosin reported, wrote, and edited the series. Our senior producer is Rider Alsop. Our producer is Ethan Brooks. Original scoring, sound design, and mix engineering by Brendan Baker.

This series was edited by Scott Stossel and Claudine Ebeid. Fact-checking by Michelle Ciarrocca. Art direction by Colin Hunter. Project management by Nancy DeVille.

Claudine Ebeid is the executive producer of Atlantic audio, and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor. The Atlantic’s executive editor is Adrienne LaFrance. Jeffrey Goldberg is The Atlantic’s editor in chief.

Read full article on: theatlantic.com

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theatlantic.com

tag Subscribe here: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | iHeart Media | YouTube | Pocket CastsJanuary 6 could have faded for Republicans as a day they’d rather not talk about. But then six months later, Donald Trump landed on a story that’s become useful to him. He started talking about Ashli Babbitt, the woman who was fatally shot by a Capitol Police officer. Over a few weeks, Trump started spinning a new story: Babbitt was a martyr, and the people imprisoned for January 6 were political prisoners, and the villain was the Deep State, the same shady entity that denied him the presidency.In this episode of We Live Here Now, we trace how Micki Witthoeft, the mother of Ashli Babbitt, got Trump’s attention and may have changed the course of history as a result. Witthoeft never had anything to do with politics before her daughter was killed. But by her constant presence at January 6 vigils and rallies, she managed to create a new reality.This is the third episode of We Live Here Now, a six-part series about what happened when we found out that our new neighbors were supporting January 6 insurrectionists.The following is a transcript of the episode:Lauren Ober: I wonder what justice looks like and what happens if it doesn’t come.Hanna Rosin: This is a question Lauren would ask Micki a lot.Micki Witthoeft: I want to see somebody held accountable for my daughter’s death.Nicole Reffitt: Exactly.Witthoeft: You know, I want to see a lot of people held accountable for my daughter’s death and the way she’s been treated since then.Ober: By whom?Witthoeft: By people that consider her disposable.Ober: What happens if no one is held accountable in a way that feels correct for you?Witthoeft: Well, that’s a good question, Lauren. But I guess, then, I will just have to take my dying breath trying to bring that about.Rosin: Micki has been in D.C., far from home, for a long time. She has four sons and two grandsons, one she barely knows because most of his life, she’s been 3,000 miles away on “Freedom Corner,” chasing this slippery justice—these somebodies to hold accountable, whatever “accountable” means. And then there’s Nicole.Reffitt: Yeah, it looks like a very long road. My family is never going to be the same as they were prior to January 6 ever again. Micki’s family is never going to be the same. Ashli’s never coming back. But being here in D.C. and seeing what that looks like, we ask ourselves that all the time. You know, like, What are we doing? We say that a lot to each other.Rosin: Lauren and I have that same question. What did they get done here? Seen one way, Micki Witthoeft and Nicole Reffitt have spent 700-plus evenings far away from their families to organize a small, fringey protest at the back of the D.C. jail. But seen another way, these two women diverted the course of history.Or maybe both are true, because this is a very weird political era where fringe can merge with power, and suddenly the world is upside down.I’m Hanna Rosin.Ober: And I’m Lauren Ober. And from The Atlantic, this is: We Live Here Now.In this episode, we try and tease out how Micki’s personal mission and Donald Trump’s political mission collided with each other. Warning: Hanna and I do not land in the same place on this one, and we have our very own hot-mic moment debating things. So lucky for you.In her previous life, Micki wasn’t all that political. But almost as soon as she learned her daughter died, politics came up. On January 7, she gave an interview to Fox 5 in San Diego.[Music]Witthoeft: I would like to invite Donald J. Trump to say her name out loud, to acknowledge the passing of his loudest and proudest supporter, Ashli Elizabeth Babbitt.Rosin: It’s revealing that at her saddest, Micki thought to call on Trump. You can hear that and think, Maybe there’s a hint of a possibility here that she thinks he should take some responsibility for Ashli’s death.There was another woman who died on January 6 at the Capitol: Rosanne Boyland, a Trump supporter who was around Ashli’s age. She was crushed by the mob just outside the Capitol. The day after her death, her brother-in-law squarely and publicly blamed her death on Trump and QAnon for leading her astray.Micki, too, could have decided that Trump spread the lie that the election was stolen to soothe his wounded ego, which lured her daughter to D.C. and got her killed. But she didn’t. Something moved her in the opposite direction. And for thousands—who knows, millions—of people, the meaning of January 6 started to shift along with her.Trump didn’t know Micki’s name on January 7, because back then, he was on the defensive. There were reports that some Republican leaders were going to ask him to resign.That never happened. Instead, they settled at: How about we just forget this whole January 6th thing? Just don’t mention it.And then around July 4, 2021, in a series of speeches, candidate Trump took a bold left turn—actually, a right turn.[Crowd noise]Donald Trump: Wow, that’s a lot of people. Thank you.Rosin: It started, as best as I can tell, at a rally. It was July 3rd—nearly seven months after the Capitol riots. It was a Saturday in Sarasota, Florida. Trump is hitting all his usual rally points, and then you can hear him reach for something new.Trump: The Republicans have to get themselves a real leader. You got some great senators, but they have to get themselves a real leader. And by the way, who shot Ashli Babbitt? Who shot Ashli Babbitt?Rosin: With an investigation into January 6 just getting underway, Trump tried a new tack.Trump: Who? Who shot Ashli Babbitt? I spoke to her mother the other day. An incredible woman. She’s just devastated like it happened yesterday. And it’s a terrible thing. Shot, boom, there was no reason for it. Who shot Ashli Babbitt? It’s got to be released.Rosin: Four days later, he was talking about it again, this time at a press conference in New Jersey. At this point, the investigation was still not releasing the name of Michael Byrd, the Capitol Police officer who shot Ashli.Trump: But the person that shot Ashli Babbitt—boom, right through the head. Just boom. There was no reason for that. They’ve already written it off. They said, That case is closed.Rosin: She was shot in the shoulder, not the head. But Trump wasn’t interested in details here. They’ve already written off Ashli’s murder. They said the case is closed. Who was “they”? Of course, the same people who stole the election.Five days after that, Trump is on Fox News:Trump: Who shot Ashli Babbitt? People want to know. And why?Rosin: Now, the Big Lie could easily have faded away—just been recorded in history books as that moment when a man named Donald Trump tried to subvert the peaceful transfer of power. But phew—democracy is resilient. The Department of Justice closed its investigation into Michael Byrd and said there was no reason to press charges. Problem solved.But that’s not what happened. Ashli’s death became the most direct and vivid way to give the Big Lie new life. Trump invoked Ashli at rallies and on TV and in press conferences. He had landed on a powerful new strategy, and he worked it for the better part of a year.Ober: Eventually, Micki landed in D.C., and within a month, she and Trump, who had both been talking about Ashli separately, were now talking about Ashli together. It happened in September 2022, when Trump called into the vigil Micki was hosting that night.Witthoeft: You’re on livestream with different countries and our crowd outside. Thank you for calling, and you’re on. Go.Trump: Okay. Well, Micki, it’s an honor to be with you. And to everybody listening, it’s a terrible thing that has happened to a lot of people that are being treated very, very unfairly. We love Ashli, and it was so horrible what happened to her. Micki, you’re asking me to just speak to everybody, but we cannot allow this to happen to our country. So God bless everybody. We are working very hard.Witthoeft: Thank you for calling, President Trump. I know the men inside appreciate you, as I do as well.Trump: And say hello to everybody.Rosin: This is the moment their missions collided. Micki had asked for Trump to say her daughter’s name out loud, and he did. He said, “We love Ashli.” So when Micki and Nicole say to themselves, What did we get done on Freedom Corner?, thisis a moment they can point to.But many a grieving American mother has received a call from a powerful politician. It can be just a fleeting moment of political theater, or it can lead to something much bigger. In this case, I would argue that it’s the latter. And I can back that up based on what Lauren saw when she followed Micki to the biggest event on the conservative political calendar.[Music]Ober: In February of this year, I tagged along with Micki and the “Eagle’s Nest” crew to CPAC, the Conservative Political Action Conference. If Washington is Hollywood for ugly people, then CPAC is its Sundance. It’s been the premier Republican convention for the past 50 years. It usually happens just outside D.C., in suburban Maryland, and it’s become a place for conservative candidates to dry run new messaging.Witthoeft: I think the check-in line is going to be a freaking zoo, because we don’t yet have our badges.Ober: Yeah, but everything’s, like, electronic, so it seemed like they have enough spots.Witthoeft: Yeah, but there’s a lot of old people, like me, that can’t work our shit.Ober: Of course, the first thing I wanted to do when we got to CPAC was visit the vendor hall.Ober (on tape): So now I’m in, like, Vendor Village area.Ober: And I was not disappointed. There were folks hawking MAGA hammocks and vibration plates that shake your cellulite away and candles that smelled like freedom, allegedly. The drag queen Lady Maga was there, waving adoringly to her fan. And did I catch a glimpse of Mr. MyPillow himself, Mike Lindell? Yes, I did.Ober: Also on offer—Vendor: You wanna play some pinball?Ober: I’m terrible at it.Vendor: That’s okay.Ober: But sure. Why not?[Game noises]Ober: A January 6 pinball game—[Game noises]Ober: What do I get if I win?Vendor: You get a high score.[Laughter]Ober: —where I could get points for storming the Capitol.Vendor: Save America. You made it to the Capitol.Ober: Oh, like January 6.[Game noises]Ober: Okay, I wasn’t there to play Insurrection Pinball. I was there to observe.As I followed Micki around the convention hall, it was clear to me that she was here to play a role. She was the living, breathing mother of the J6 martyr, complete with the costume: a T-shirt that read “ashli babbitt, murdered by capitol police, january 6, 2021.” Plenty of people recognized her. They did those sad, little pity smiles and asked for a handshake or a hug or a photo. More than a few people approached Micki and asked if they could pray for her.Stranger 1: Dear Lord, thank you for this woman that’s here. And thank you for her bravery, and for her taking this season of pain and turning it into something that’s for your glory, Lord. And we know that you are victorious, and you will surround her with your comfort and your peace, and you will infuse her with strength, and just bless this whole weekend and every interaction she has. And we know that all is done for the glory of you. In Jesus’s name, amen.Witthoeft: Thank you, ladies.Stranger 1: You’re welcome. Good work. Good work.Witthoeft: Thank y’all.Ober: Three-plus years into playing this role, I could see it was wearing on Micki. She looked exhausted. Throughout the conference, stranger after stranger approached Micki.Stranger 2: I’m so sorry for your loss. These people will be held accountable.Witthoeft: I sure hope so.Stranger 2: Justice will be served.Witthoeft: Thank you, sir. I appreciate that. I hope so.Ober: Micki is gracious about it, but I’ve been around her long enough by now to know that there are other things bubbling under the surface.Ober: This happens again and again and again throughout the three-day convention. And Micki is gracious about it, but I’ve been around her long enough by now to know that there are other things bubbling under the surface.Ober: Is it tiring when people come up to you and they say, Oh, I’m so sorry? Like—Witthoeft: That’s not tiring. There are certain phrases that I find offensive. And people don’t mean them offensively, but sometimes they—Ober: Like what?Witthoeft: Like, the one that always gets me is: It could have been me. I don’t like that when people say that to me. My response is, Okay, thanks. Nice to meet you. Bye.Ober: Right.Witthoeft: I mean, I try not to be rude, because I know people don’t mean it in a way to be offensive. It’s recognition of Ashli’s sacrifice on a certain level. So I don’t want to be offensive back at them, because I don’t feel like they mean to be offensive to me. So I just, you know, try to be as polite as possible and move on.Ober: Right. Right.Witthoeft: Try not to say, Yeah? Well, I wish it was, and it wasn’t my daughter, because that’s not appropriate either. But the truth is, I wish it was anybody else. So you know, I don’t know how you respond to that as—Coffee! Big-ass sign right there.Ober: Okay, that conversation ended a bit abruptly. Anyway, on the last day of CPAC, Hanna came, and we met up in the press section, which looked like it was more filled with right-wing TikTokers than actual traditional journalists. Hanna and I were eating snacks and waiting for Trump’s speech to start when something familiar came over the loudspeaker.J6 Choir: O say can you see, by the dawn’s early light—Ober: My first thought was, What is this garbage recording? Surely, the Trump campaign could have found a higher-quality rendition of our national anthem.But then we realized why the song sounded like that. This was sung at the D.C. jail, the J6 prison choir, which Micki played every night at the vigil over the loudspeakers.Trump: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.Ober: Mixed with Donald Trump reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.Rosin: This was the fight song for the “Patriot Pod” prisoners, the musical backdrop to Micki’s dream about Ashli. And now the possible next future president was taking it up as his own.Trump: I stand before you today, not only as your past and hopefully future president, but as a proud political dissident. I am a dissident.Rosin: And in this speech—the darkest one of his campaign so far—he vowed to get revenge.Trump: For hardworking Americans, November 5 will be our new liberation day. But for the liars and cheaters and fraudsters and censors and imposters who have commandeered our government, it will be their judgment day! Their judgment day.[Crowd cheers]Rosin: It would be an exaggeration to say Micki orchestrated this political moment. After all, she’d never really been into politics. Her San Diego life was just fine without mainlining Fox News. Maybe the more accurate way to say it is that between her dream and her enduring grief, she manifested this moment—where Trump and the J6ers became one—where Trump said over and over that if he became president, he would pardon the J6ers, basically, magically fulfilling Ashli’s vision in Micki’s dream.Ober: The day after CPAC, we ran into Micki while walking the dogs and asked her what she thought of Trump’s speech. Apparently, she hadn’t seen it. The Eagle’s Nest crew left and went home before Trump even took the stage. When the politicians come in the room, she said, that’s when the bullshit starts.Rosin: So the Micki–MAGA relationship—it’s pretty complicated. That’s after the break.[Break]Ober: If you ask Micki if she thinks all the jailed J6ers should be pardoned for their actions at the Capitol, her answer is probably not going to be the one you expect. More than once, Micki has told me that not everyone acted like a Boy Scout that day. So the more violent ones—or the folks who brought implements, like pitchforks, say—deserved to be punished. So Trump saying he’s gonna pardon all J6ers doesn’t really move her much. But she sees the utility of Trump talking about January 6. She can use him to bring attention to her cause, just like he has used her daughter as a campaign prop.There are other things about Micki that don’t necessarily track with MAGA lunacy. She thinks that healthcare shouldn’t be tied to employment and that there should be term limits for judges and lawmakers. She’s pretty pro-LGBTQ, since Ashli was bisexual. And once, we had a five-minute conversation about gun control where we almost—almost—came to a shared conclusion.Now, that doesn’t mean that Micki is turning blue any time soon. She’s more like a populist libertarian who often says impolitic things, even harmful things—like the time right before I met her, when she said this about Lieutenant Michael Byrd.Witthoeft: Michael Byrd needs to swing from the end of a rope, along with Nancy Pelosi.Ober: Byrd is Black. Micki is white. Which she discussed when she brought up the comment to me.Witthoeft: You know, I mean, there’s much talk about me saying Michael Byrd should be swinging from the end of a rope. It’s saying, Oh, look at her. She’s calling for a lynching. I am not calling for a lynching.Ober: Her explanation wasn’t exculpatory by any means, and no one should be calling for anyone’s execution. But I wanted to hear Micki out. So we’re gonna let this run because she landed in a place I didn’t see coming.Witthoeft: A hanging and a lynching are two different things. A hanging occurs after a trial and you’re pronounced guilty, and your ass gets hung. That’s how it happens. It’s happened. And it’s happened not just to Black people, specifically. Lynchings—most of them are Black people. But hangings—hangings are retribution for something that you got coming to you. And they used to do it right on the battlefield. If you got convicted of treason, they would either shoot you or hang you. And that’s the way I meant that. And I said it about Nancy Pelosi too, and she’s about as white-bread as you come, which is another thing when people start talking about white privilege. I am not that white-privilege person. I have never had money. Ashli doesn’t come from white privilege. She worked hard for anything she ever had, and so has my family.Ober: Sure. I have worked hard for everything I have, and I also have an enormous amount of privilege, largely due to my race and economic status.Witthoeft: I understand that Black people have been treated in a different way than white people have in this country for a long time—well, forever. But I thought that we were making huge strides in that, until, you know—until I came to this city, actually. But what I will say is: Being the parent of a child that was murdered under color of authority.Ober: Yeah.Witthoeft: It does make me—’cause you don’t know until you know—it does make me identify somewhat with Black and brown mothers who have been going through this for decades, because their children have been murdered under color of authority without any avenue for retribution, for years.Ober: You can see how a Black mother whose child was killed by police would forever mistrust authority. Micki landed in the same place. Only for her, the mistrust was supercharged.Witthoeft: When they killed Ashli, they took a lot more from me than my daughter. They took my whole belief in the system that runs America from me. Even though, you know, It’s a little bad; it’s mostly good. I don’t believe that anymore. And so in that process, I don’t know what I believe them capable of. Is it eating babies and drinking their blood? I don’t think so, but I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know what they’re up to. I really don’t know what they’re up to.[Music]Ober: Years from now, when Micki and Nicole ask themselves the question, What did we actually accomplish in D.C.? they might come up with an answer that has nothing to do with Trump or Justice for January 6. These two women who had only ever known themselves as wives and mothers learned they could whisper in a president’s ear and whip up the media and become impossible to ignore. And they could’ve only done it because they walked out of that courtroom together, hand in hand.One of the things I’ve been most surprised about is the depth of their friendship, which is only a couple of years old. Since Ashli died, Micki can barely sleep. She’s had panic that takes her breath away and nightmares that make her weep. She can’t bear to sleep in a room by herself. So she and Nicole share the basement of the Eagle’s Nest, their mattresses pushed head to head. Oliver, the dog, plops himself in between the two of them like a canine headboard. Just hearing Nicole and her dog softly breathe is a comfort to Micki.Witthoeft: I’ve bonded with Nicole in ways that I’ve bonded with very few people. There’s really nothing about me that Nicole doesn’t—I mean, I’m sure there’s things, but there’s nothing I wouldn’t say to her. Maybe that’s because we sleep head to head, and we yap all night, but I don’t know.Ober: Micki had no idea who Nicole Reffitt was when she showed up at Guy Reffitt’s sentencing in August of 2022. But their connection was almost instantaneous.Witthoeft: If you believe in love at first sight, which I don’t really do—I believe in sexual attraction at first sight, but I don’t know about love at first sight. But I think if that’s possible, then friendship at first sight is. And when I first saw Nicole, like I said, I had never met her, and I knew instantly who she was. And she just had this defiant, “strong-ass woman” look on her face, and I just knew she was somebody I could be friends with.Ober: There was one moment early on in their living together that kind of sealed the deal for Micki.Witthoeft: But when I knew that we would be friends forever, oddly enough—why do you always make me cry, Lauren? Shit. It was the day my dog died. Because she, you know—I was on the couch with Fuggles, and I couldn’t make it happen. I was like, I just—I wanted to call.Ober: But she couldn’t. So Nicole called the vet and had Fuggles put down. That small kindness meant everything to Micki.Witthoeft: I just thought at that minute that I truly loved her. I do.[Music]Ober: Now, because Nicole and Micki are often seen together, and because of that one hand-holding scene after Guy’s sentencing, the online haters have had a field day. Someone made a music video that mashed up their voices from the vigil with overtly sexual innuendo and patriotic imagery. It’s too crass for me to play for you here, but I’m sure you know how to Google, if you’re interested.Recently, someone sent Nicole a cardboard mailing tube that said the words “oversizeddildos.com” plastered on the side. The tube was empty. Right after the mailer arrived, Micki texted me a photo. “Did you prank us?” she wrote. For the record, I did not. She wrote back: “I told you I hate it when the left is funny. There wasn’t anything in the canister. More empty promises.”Ober: After I had a good laugh about the whole situation, I pushed Nicole to try to put a name to the love that they have for each other.Ober: A lot of people’s intimate relationships can’t be defined. And so I could ask you, Okay, is it like you feel like a sister bond?Reffitt: It’s more.Ober: Is it like you feel, like—right. Like a—Reffitt: It’s not sexual, but it is more.Ober: Yeah. Like an intimate-partner bond.Reffitt: Oh yeah. It’s definitely an intimate-partner bond.Ober: Right.Reffitt: I don’t even know what kind of love that must be, because I love Micki more than a friendship love. But you know, there’s not a lot of the sexual aspect of it. But there’s intimacy.Ober: Mm-hmm. What does “intimacy” mean?Reffitt: I don’t know. You can have intimate moments with someone while being fully clothed. You know, like, you can share very close feelings without touching anyone. So those are intimate moments, I think.Ober: Like, give me an example.Reffitt: Well, I’m not gonna tell you shit. I’m already telling you all this. I know, but like—Ober: No. Because I’m just trying to understand.Reffitt: I mean, I think this is—well, this is a level of intimacy. It’s a level that we’re having.Ober: You and me?Reffitt: Yeah. We’re being intimate. I mean, I’m being intimate with you.Ober: Right. It’s not an equal exchange.Reffitt: Exactly. Like, you’re not being intimate with me, but I absolutely am being intimate with you. So I’m being very vulnerable.Ober: Mm-hmm.Reffitt: But Micki is reciprocal. I mean, like, we’re sharing that.Ober: Mm-hmm.[Music]Rosin: Would you say that you guys were friends?Ober: I guess it depends on what your version of friend is. No. I mean, we’re neighbors.Rosin: I pressed Lauren a lot about this. Obviously, she was a journalist, and it was her job to spend time with these guys. But had she become, like, friends friends with them? Is that a good thing? Is it dangerous? Sometimes we had fights about it. This one, for example—it’s the hot-mic moment we promised you.Rosin: I feel so differently than you do about this. I don’t spend this much time with them. What I notice at the vigil is not what you notice at the vigil. I don’t think it’s fucking cute at all.Ober: You think I think it’s cute? No. It’s fucking weird. But I also don’t think that it’s, like, shredding—Rosin: No. I don’t think it’s weird. I think it’s absolutely destructive.Ober: But, see, I don’t have any proof that it is. Like I don’t have proof that it’s destructive. I don’t have any notion that it’s any—Rosin: How about Trump playing that song at Waco, Texas?Ober: Of course, but it wasn’t about the J6—Rosin: Who got that song into the public consciousness? Micki.Ober: No, she didn’t, actually. She had nothing to do with it.Rosin: Lauren, we just feel differently. To me, it’s like, I think Micki is a lovely, interesting, complicated person. And I think this mission that she’s on in D.C. is absolutely destructive.Ober: Show me proof of destruction. That is not new. They have a platform—Rosin: Okay, Micki didn’t cause it. Micki didn’t bring it into being. Micki created an audience for it. She brings Trump to them. She brings these politicians to them.Ober: But it’s not—Rosin: So you have to account for the things that Micki is supporting and laying out the red carpet for. Like, her ideology is meaningful.Rosin: I dug in. This fight went on for, like, an hour and a half more. And by the end of it, nothing was resolved.In our next episode: Lauren gets even closer to the action, and she asks herself whether she ruined a J6er’s life.Marie Johnatakis: It was really surprising that they took him into custody then. And I just remember thinking, like, He’s not a danger. He’s been out this whole time. Can you please just let us? You know, we just need a little more help.Ober: That’s on the next episode of We Live Here Now.[Music]Ober: We Live Here Now is a production of The Atlantic. The show was reported, written, and executive produced by me, Lauren Ober. Hanna Rosin reported, wrote, and edited the series. Our senior producer is Rider Alsop. Our producer is Ethan Brooks. Original scoring, sound design, and mix engineering by Brendan Baker.This series was edited by Scott Stossel and Claudine Ebeid. Fact-checking by Michelle Ciarrocca. Art direction by Colin Hunter. Project management by Nancy DeVille.Claudine Ebeid is the executive producer of Atlantic audio, and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor. The Atlantic’s executive editor is Adrienne LaFrance. Jeffrey Goldberg is The Atlantic’s editor in chief.

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Joe Biden’s presidency is ending sooner than he hoped, but he can still cement his legacy by accomplishing something no other president has: the commutation of every federal death sentence.In 2020, Biden ran partly on abolishing the federal death penalty. His campaign website promised that he would “work to pass legislation to eliminate the death penalty at the federal level, and incentivize states to follow the federal government’s example,” adding that death-row prisoners “should instead serve life sentences without probation or parole.” The Democratic Party platform that year also provided for the abolition of the death penalty, and shortly after Biden’s inauguration, a White House spokesperson confirmed that the president was indeed opposed to capital punishment.But the actual practice of his administration has been mixed. In July 2021, Biden’s attorney general, Merrick Garland, imposed a moratorium on executions. “The Department of Justice must ensure that everyone in the federal criminal justice system is not only afforded the rights guaranteed by the Constitution and laws of the United States, but is also treated fairly and humanely,” Garland wrote in a memo. “That obligation has special force in capital cases.” Asked for comment on Garland’s announcement, a Biden spokesperson said, “As the president has made clear, he has significant concerns about the death penalty and how it is implemented, and he believes the Department of Justice should return to its prior practice of not carrying out executions.”[Read: Can America kill its prisoners kindly?]Biden’s administration has not carried out any federal executions, but neither has he instructed Garland to stop pursuing new death sentences, or to stop defending ongoing capital cases. Biden’s Department of Justice has continued pursuing death sentences for mass murderers and terrorists, including Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the Boston Marathon bomber, and Dylann Roof, the Charleston, South Carolina, church shooter. And Biden has declined to advocate for legislation that would eliminate the federal death penalty. Opponents of the death penalty have criticized Biden for failing to honor his campaign promises concerning capital punishment.So far, Biden has approached federal executions in the same way Barack Obama did: leaving the architecture for carrying out capital sentences in place but benevolently neglecting to use it. Donald Trump’s example, however, demonstrates how easy it is to resume executions even after a long gap. From 2003 to 2020, the federal government did not carry out executions. Then the Trump administration put to death 13 prisoners in a few months. Garland’s defense of current federal death sentences and pursuit of new ones has laid the groundwork for adding new prisoners to federal death row.Perhaps Biden is hoping to leave abolition up to his successor. But that, too, would be a mistake. His successor could well be Trump, and his vice president is unlikely to act boldly in this area, as she isn’t reliably opposed to capital punishment. In 2004, when Kamala Harris refused as San Francisco district attorney to seek a death sentence for the murderer of a police officer, Democratic politicians skewered her decision publicly. Then-Senators Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer as well as then–Oakland Mayor Jerry Brown all called for the death penalty. The experience was apparently formative for Harris, who reportedly became much more politically cautious as a result. Since then, Harris’s position on the death penalty has shifted several times. Right now, Harris won’t clarify whether she intends to authorize her DOJ to seek death sentences or advance current ones, and the 2024 Democratic platform has been stripped of references to capital punishment. I doubt Harris intends to resume federal executions, but neither does she seem primed to commute every sentence on death row, or to advocate vigorously for abolition.So the opportunity is in Biden’s hands. If he really does abhor capital punishment as he has claimed, then he has several avenues through which to act with the last of his executive power. He could instruct his DOJ to withdraw its pending notice of intent to seek capital punishment in the 2022 Buffalo, New York, shooting case; rescind a Trump-era letter saying the FDA has no right to regulate the distribution of lethal drugs; and commute the death sentences of the roughly 40 prisoners on federal death row. The president no longer has to worry about the political ramifications of decisive work on capital punishment, and therefore has the freedom to act on his values and save dozens of lives. He ought to take this opportunity to keep his campaign promises, and to honor the dignity of human life.

31 m

theatlantic.com

The Ukraine War Can’t End Until Russia Stops Fighting

In an underground parking lot beneath an ordinary building in an ordinary Ukrainian city, dozens of what appear to be small, windowless fishing boats are lined up in rows. The noise of machinery echoes from a separate room, where men are working with metal and wires. They didn’t look up when I walked in one recent morning, and no wonder: This is a sea-drone factory, these are among the best engineers in Ukraine, and they are busy producing the unmanned vessels that have altered the trajectory of the war. Packed with explosives and guided by the world’s most sophisticated remote-navigation technology, these new weapons might even change the way that all naval wars are fought in the future.Certainly, the sea drones are evolving very quickly. A year ago, I visited the small workshop that was then producing the first Ukrainian models. One of the chief engineers described what was at the time the drones’ first major success: a strike that took out a Russian frigate, damaged a submarine, and hit some other boats as well.Since then, the sea drones, sometimes alone and sometimes in combined attacks with flying drones or missiles, have sunk or damaged more than two dozen warships. This is possibly the most successful example of asymmetric warfare in history. The Ukrainian drones cost perhaps $220,000 apiece; many of the Russian ships are worth hundreds of millions of dollars. The military impact is enormous. To avoid Ukrainian strikes, Russian ships have mostly left their former headquarters, in the occupied Crimean port of Sevastopol, and moved farther east. They no longer patrol the Ukrainian coast. They can’t stop Ukrainian cargo ships from carrying grain and other goods to world markets, and Ukrainian trade is returning to prewar levels. This can’t be said often enough: Ukraine, a country without much of a navy, defeated Russia’s Black Sea fleet.Nor is Ukraine’s talent for asymmetric warfare confined to water. During a recent trip, I visited another basement, where another team of Ukrainians was working to change the course of the war—and, again, maybe the course of all subsequent wars as well. (I was allowed to tour these operations on the condition that I not identify their locations or the people working at them.) This particular facility had no machines, no engines, and no warheads, just a room lined with screens. The men and women sitting at the screens were dressed like civilians, but in fact they were soldiers, members of a special army unit created to deploy experimental communications technology in combination with experimental drones. Both are being developed by Ukrainians, for Ukraine.[Read: The ‘Gray Zone’ comes to Russia]This particular team, with links to many parts of the front lines, has been part of both offensive and defensive operations, and even medical evacuations. According to one of the commanders, this unit alone has conducted 2,400 combat missions and destroyed more than 1,000 targets, including tanks, armored personnel vehicles, trucks, and electronic-warfare systems since its creation several months ago. Like the sea-drone factory, the team in the basement is operating on a completely different scale from the frontline drone units whose work I also encountered last year, on several trips around Ukraine. In 2023, I met small groups of men building drones in garages, using what looked like sticks and glue. By contrast, this new unit is able to see images of most of the front line all at once, revise tools and tactics as new situations develop, and even design new drones to fit the army’s changing needs.More important, another commander told me, the team works “at the horizontal level,” meaning that members coordinate directly with other groups on the ground rather than operating via the army’s chain of command: “Three years of experience tells us that, 100 percent, we will be much more efficient when we are doing it on our own—coordinating with other guys that have assets, motivation, understanding of the processes.” Horizontal is a word that describes many successful Ukrainian projects, both military and civilian. Also, grassroots. In other words, Ukrainians do better when they organize themselves; they do worse when they try to move in lockstep under a single leader. Some argue that this makes them more resilient. Or, as another member of the team put it, Russia will never be able to destroy Ukraine’s decision-making center, “because the center doesn’t make all the decisions.” Members of Ukraine’s 22nd Mechanized Brigade assemble a Poseidon reconnaissance drone in Sumy province, near the Russian border, in August. (Roman Pilipey / AFP / Getty) I recognize that this account of the war effort differs dramatically from other, grimmer stories now coming out of Ukraine. In recent weeks, Russian glide bombs and artillery have slowly begun to destroy the city of Pokrovsk, a logistical hub that has been part of Ukraine’s defensive line in Donetsk for a decade. Regular waves of Russian air strikes continue to hit Ukraine’s electricity infrastructure. The repeated attacks on civilians are not an accident; they are a tactic. Russian President Vladimir Putin is seeking to deprive Ukrainians of heat and light, to demoralize the people as well as the government, and perhaps to provoke a new refugee exodus that will disrupt European politics.Russia remains the larger and richer country. The Kremlin has more ammunition, more tanks, and a greater willingness to dispose of its citizens. The Russian president is willing to tolerate high human losses, as well as equipment losses, of a kind that almost no other nation could accept. And yet, the Ukrainians still believe they can win—if only their American and European allies will let them.Two and a half years into the conflict, the idea that we haven’t let Ukraine win may sound strange. Since the beginning of the war, after all, we have been supporting Ukraine with weapons and other aid. Recently, President Joe Biden reiterated his support for Ukraine at the United Nations. “The good news is that Putin’s war has failed in his core aim,” he said. But, he added, “the world now has another choice to make: Will we sustain our support to help Ukraine win this war and preserve its freedom, or walk away and let a nation be destroyed? We cannot grow weary. We cannot look away.” Hoping to rally more Americans to his side, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky spent much of last week in the United States. He visited an ammunition factory in Pennsylvania. He met with former President Donald Trump, and with Vice President Kamala Harris.Eliot A. Cohen and Phillips Payson O’Brien: How defense experts got Ukraine wrongZelensky also presented a victory plan that asked, among other things, for Ukraine to have the right to use American and European long-range missiles to strike military targets deep inside Russia. This kind of request is now familiar. In each stage of the war, the Ukrainians and their allies have waged public campaigns to get new weapons—tanks, F-16s, long-range missiles—that they need to maintain a technological edge. Each time, these requests were eventually granted, although sometimes too late to make a difference.Each time, officials in the U.S., Germany, and other Western powers argued that this or that weapon risked crossing some kind of red line. The same argument is being made once again, and it sounds hollow. Because at this point, the red lines are entirely in our heads; every one of them has been breached. Using drones, Ukraine already hits targets deep inside Russia, including oil refineries, oil and gas export facilities, even air bases. In the past few weeks, Ukraine’s long-range drones have hit at least three large ammunition depots, one of which was said to have just received a large consignment from North Korea; when attacked, the depot exploded dramatically, producing an eerie mushroom cloud. In a development that would have been unthinkable at the beginning of the war, Ukraine has, since early August, even occupied a chunk of Russian territory. Ukrainian troops invaded Kursk province, took control of several towns and villages, set up defenses, repelled Russian troops, and have yet to leave.But in truth, the imaginary red lines, the slow provision of weapons, and the rules about what can and can’t be hit are not the real problem. On its own, a White House decision to allow the Ukrainians to strike targets in Russia with American or even European missiles will not change the course of the war. The deeper limitation is our lack of imagination. Since this war began, we haven’t been able to imagine that the Ukrainians might defeat Russia, and so we haven’t tried to help those who are trying to do exactly that. We aren’t identifying, funding, and empowering the young Ukrainian engineers who are inventing new forms of asymmetric warfare. With a few exceptions, Ukrainians tell me, many allied armies aren’t in regular contact with the people carrying out cutting-edge military experiments in Ukraine. Oleksandr Kamyshin, Ukraine’s minister of strategic industries, says that the Ukrainians have spare capacity in their own drone factories, and could produce more themselves if they just had the money. Meanwhile, $300 billion worth of frozen Russian reserves are still sitting in European clearinghouses, untouched, waiting for a political decision to use that money to win the war. Biden is right to tout the success of the coalition of democracies created to aid Ukraine, but why not let that coalition start defending Ukraine against incoming missiles, as friends of Israel have just done in the Middle East? Why isn’t the coalition focused on enforcing targeted sanctions against the Russian defense industry? Worse—much worse—is that, instead of focusing on victory, Americans and Europeans continue to dream of a magic “negotiated solution” that remains far away. Many, many people, some in good faith and some in bad faith, continue to call for an exchange of “land for peace.” Last week, Trump attacked Zelensky for supposedly refusing to negotiate, and the ex-president continues to make unfounded promises to end the war “in 24 hours.” But the obstacle to negotiations is not Zelensky. He probably could be induced to trade at least some land for peace, as long as Ukraine received authentic security guarantees—preferably, though not necessarily, in the form of NATO membership—to protect the rest of the country’s territory, and as long as Ukraine could be put on a path to complete integration with Europe. Even a smaller Ukraine would still need to be a viable country, to attract investment and ensure refugees’ return. Right now, the actual obstacle is Putin. Indeed, none of these advocates for “peace,” whether they come from the Quincy Institute, the Trump campaign, the Council on Foreign Relations, or even within the U.S. government, can explain how they will persuade Russia to accept such a deal. It is the Russians who have to be persuaded to stop fighting. It is the Russians who do not want to end the war. Portraits of Russian service members killed during the invasion of Ukraine are projected onto the State Council building in Simferopol, in Russian-occupied Crimea, in April. The letter Z is a symbol of the Russian invasion. (AFP / Getty) Look, again, at the situation on the ground. Even now, two and a half years into a war that was supposed to be over in a few days, the Kremlin still seeks to gain more territory. Despite the ongoing Ukrainian occupation of Kursk province, the Russian army is still sending thousands of men to die in the battle for Donetsk province. The Russian army also seems unbothered by losing equipment. In the long battle for Vulhedar, a now-empty town in eastern Ukraine with a prewar population of 14,000, the Russians have sacrificed about 1,000 tanks, armored vehicles, and pieces of artillery —nearly 6 percent of all the vehicles destroyed during the entire war.Russia has not changed its rhetoric either. On state television, pundits still call for the dismemberment and destruction of Ukraine. Putin continues to call for the “denazification of Ukraine,” by which he means the removal of Ukraine’s language, culture, and identity—as well as “demilitarization, and neutral status,” by which he means a Ukraine that has no army and cannot resist conquest. Nor do Russian economic decisions indicate a desire for peace. The Russian president now plans to spend 40 percent of the national budget on arms production, sacrificing living standards, health care, pensions, broader prosperity, and maybe the stability of the economy itself. The state is still paying larger and larger bonuses to anyone willing to sign up to fight. Labor shortages are rampant, both because the army is eating up eligible men and because so many others have left the country to avoid conscription.Negotiations can begin only when this rhetoric changes, when the defense machine grinds to a halt, when the attempts to conquer yet another village are abandoned. This war will end, in other words, only when the Russians run out of resources—and their resources are not infinite—or when they finally understand that Ukraine’s alliances are real, that Ukraine will not surrender, and that Russia cannot win. Just as the British decided in the early 20th century that Ireland is not British and the French decided in 1962 that Algeria is not France, so must the Russians come to accept that Ukraine is not Russia. At that point, there can be a cease-fire, a discussion of new borders, negotiations about other things—such as the fate of the more than 19,000 Ukrainian children who have been kidnapped and deported by the Russians, an orchestrated act of cruelty.We have not yet reached that stage. The Russians are still waiting for the U.S. to get tired, to stop defending Ukraine, and maybe to elect Trump so that they can dictate terms and make Ukraine into a colony again. They are hoping that the “Ukraine fatigue” they promote and the false arguments about Ukrainian corruption (“Zelensky’s yachts”) that they pay American influencers to repeat will eventually overwhelm America’s strategic and political self-interest. Which, of course, might be the case.But if it is, we are in for a nasty surprise. Should Ukraine finally lose this war, the costs—military, economic, political—for the U.S. and its allies will not go down. On the contrary, they are likely to increase, and not only in Europe. Since 2022, the military and defense-industry links among Russia, North Korea, Iran, and China have strengthened. Iran has delivered drones and missiles to Russia. Russia, in turn, may be providing anti-ship missiles to the Houthis, Iranian proxies who could use them against American and European commercial and military ships in the Red Sea. According to a recent Reuters report, the Russians are now constructing a major drone factory in China. The Chinese stand to benefit, that is, from the huge technological gains that the Russians have made, in many cases by imitating the Ukrainians in drone warfare and other systems, even if Americans aren’t paying close attention.[Read: Confessions of a Russian propagandist ]A failure to defeat Russia will be felt not just in Europe but also in the Middle East and Asia. It will be felt in Venezuela, where Putin’s aggressive defiance has surely helped inspire his ally Nicolás Maduro to stay in power despite losing an election in a landslide. It will be felt in Africa, where Russian mercenaries now support a series of ugly regimes. And, of course, this failure will be felt by Ukraine’s neighbors. I doubt very much that Germany and France, let alone Poland, are prepared for the consequences of a truly failed Ukraine, for a collapse of the Ukrainian state, for lawlessness or Russian-Mafia rule at the European Union’s eastern doorstep, as well as for the violence and crime that would result.The means to prevent that kind of international catastrophe are right in front of us, in the form of Ukraine’s drone factories, the underground sea-drone laboratory, the tools now being designed to enable the Ukrainian army to beat a larger opponent—and also in the form of our own industrial capacity. The democratic world remains wealthier and more dynamic than the autocratic world. To stay that way, Ukraine and its Western allies have to persuade Russia to stop fighting. We have to win this war.

31 m

theatlantic.com

Jesse Palmer Teases ‘The Golden Bachelorette’ Episode 3, Gerry Turner’s Return, And “Headwinds” In Joan Vassos’ Season

Don't worry, we talked about Golden Bachelorette kickball, too.

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nypost.com

Jose Butto gives Mets’ bullpen rest it needs with two perfect innings

After Luis Severino gave the Mets six innings, Carlos Mendoza turned to perhaps the best arm he had left to tear for the seventh and eighth innings.

31 m

nypost.com

Mets vs. Brewers Game 2 predictions: MLB Wild Card odds, picks, best bets

Sean Manaea gets the Game 2 start for the Mets, while Milwaukee will go with Frankie Monta

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nypost.com

‘Morning Joe’: Vance’s Debate Answer Explains Why I’m Not Supporting Republicans

MSNBCMSNBC host Joe Scarborough said on Wednesday’s Morning Joe that one of JD Vance’s answers during his debate against Tim Walz explains exactly why he’s not supporting the Republican ticket in this election.Scarborough, a former GOP congressman, was speaking about a moment toward the end of Tuesday’s vice presidential debate in which Walz asked Vance point blank whether or not he believed his running mate, Donald Trump, lost the 2020 election. Apparently unwilling to contradict Trump’s false claims about that election being stolen, Vance ducked the question to say he’s “focused on the future.”Scarborough praised aspects of Vance’s debate performance, but said that particular answer was crucial.Read more at The Daily Beast.

40 m

thedailybeast.com

Hero mom killed in Tel Aviv terrorist shooting while shielding her 9-month-old baby

A new Israeli mom was among those killed when two terrorists went on a rampage near Tel Aviv, Israeli officials said Wednesday -- saying she was gunned down while heroically saving her baby's life.

45 m

nypost.com

Tech titan John Backus lists glass Miami house for $15.9M

This 6,408-square-foot SoFla home is as classy as it is glassy.

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nypost.com

Vince McMahon’s full self may never be truly known as new Netflix doc doesn’t get far enough

We may never know the true Vince McMahon.

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nypost.com

Heart-warming moment newlyweds had first dance in underground shelter during Iran’s missile attack

"Iran couldn't stop the joy at this Jerusalem wedding even for a moment," said Bible Scholar and author Saul Sadka, who originally posted the clip.

50 m

nypost.com

The Mets’ playoff-opening win had all the hallmarks of a surge that isn’t slowing down

Take a deep breath and realize this is now, somehow, the Mets' most promising playoff run in nearly a decade after a Game 1 wild-card win over the Brewers.

51 m

nypost.com

U.S. bomb from WWII explodes at airport in Japan; 80 flights canceled

A number of unexploded bombs dropped by the U.S. military during World War II have been unearthed in the area, officials said.

54 m

cbsnews.com

Shh, ChatGPT. That’s a Secret.

Your chatbot transcripts may be a gold mine for AI companies.

59 m

theatlantic.com

Trump Uses Vance Debate ‘Win’ as New Excuse to Avoid Second Harris Showdown

Win McNamee/Getty ImagesDonald Trump has come up with yet another excuse to skip a proposed second debate with Kamala Harris, claiming she only wants to debate him again because his running mate bested hers in Tuesday’s face-off between the candidates for vice president.“Lyin’ Kamala just put out a request for another Debate because they lost so badly tonight - Again, it’s like the fighter who lost, gets up and says, ‘I WANT A REMATCH,’’’ he wrote on Truth Social after Republican JD Vance and Democrat Tim Walz finished their debate. “I beat Biden, I then beat her, and I’m not looking to do it again, too far down the line.”For weeks, Harris has been goading Trump to agree to a second debate, after most registered voters said she was the clear winner in their lone match-up in September. On Sunday, she told a crowd of about 7,500 people in Las Vegas that Trump’s refusal to debate her was proof he was “ready to fold.” But she didn’t call for another presidential debate on Tuesday night.Read more at The Daily Beast.

59 m

thedailybeast.com

The Sports Report: Lakers coach JJ Redick learns a lot on the first day of training camp

JJ Redick was given sound advice on how to deal with his first day of practice as new coach of the Lakers.

1 h

latimes.com

Column: Passion for football flows during Marine League battles

Sometimes the passion overflows with fights on and off the field when teams like Banning, Carson, Narbonne and San Pedro play.

1 h

latimes.com

Anthony Volpe ready for own Yankees playoff introduction

Volpe attended several Yankees playoff games growing up in Watchung, N.J. It was always a thrill.

1 h

nypost.com

MS-13’s ‘Little Devil’ gets 50 years for luring four to be hacked to death in Long Island park

She's lived up to her nickname.

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nypost.com

How We Chose the 2024 TIME100 Next

Growing up outside Boston in the late 1980s and early 1990s, I was, by birthright and by accident of history, a fan of the Boston Celtics. At that time, the team, led by Larry Bird, was one of the best ever. During the season, Bird happened to live in our neighborhood, and I can still…

1 h

time.com

End of student loans grace period a potentially perilous time for borrowers

The 12-month grace period for student loan borrowers ended Sept. 30. The "on-ramp" period helped borrowers struggling to make payments avoid the risk of defaulting and hurting their credit score.

1 h

cbsnews.com

Drunk driver allegedly killed Marine veteran in Las Vegas hit-and-run crash then fled US: report

“How is this individual not a flight risk in the eyes of any judge?”

1 h

nypost.com

Victoria Monét

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time.com

Beabadoobee

When I first heard Beabadoobee’s song “Coffee” in 2017, I was amped. Her voice was warm and nostalgic, and it felt completely singular. Now, whenever I hear it, I am transported back to that time in my life. I was 17, hormonal and in love and confused and, all of a sudden, a forever fan…

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time.com

Kaia Gerber

Kaia Gerber is so deserving of recognition, for myriad reasons. She brings her dazzling spirit and creativity to everything she does. Her radical professionalism, striking grace, and generosity are the foundation of who she is as an actor, model, businesswoman, and friend. Kaia is among the most naturally curious, engaging, and empathetic people I am…

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time.com

Kingsley Ben-Adir

The first time I met Kingsley Ben-Adir was at a cast dinner for High Fidelity. Actors can be a brooding bunch, but he was fizzing with excitement. By night’s end, I felt like I had known him forever. As we parted ways, he invited me to join him in Jamaica … that weekend. Kingsley exudes a…

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time.com

Brandon Blackwood

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time.com

Shaina Taub

“How will we do it when it’s never been done? “How will we find a way, where there isn’t one?” So sings the great Shaina Taub as Alice Paul in her masterful Broadway musical Suffs, a decade-long labor of love that tells the story of the tenacious women on the front lines of the suffragist…

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time.com

Adria Arjona

A movie star is someone you can’t take your eyes off of. Their beauty and presence pull you in right away, but it’s the sense of mystery behind their eyes that keeps you there. That’s Adria Arjona. When she shows up, it’s like, holy sh-t. She’s sweet and confident, but there’s a depth to her…

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time.com

Payal Kapadia

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time.com

Alice Oseman

When I think about Alice Oseman, a frame from their Heartstopper comic pops into my head. In it, Nick Nelson wraps a blanket around Charlie Spring’s shoulders and says, simply, “There.” To me, that’s Alice’s work in a nutshell. Her books—and Heartstopper’s pitch-perfect adaptation to a Netflix series—are earnest, heartfelt, and tender. They sit with…

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time.com

Ashley Park

Ashley Park vibrates with energy and warmth like a downed power line on a beautiful summer night. Spending time with Ashley is a cross between Paris Fashion Week, one of those dancing inflatables outside a car wash, and a TikTok compilation of “funniest jump scares.” I first met Ashley when she auditioned for the role…

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time.com

These are the Adams officials who have resigned amid federal probes and staff turmoil

Mayor Eric Adams' troubles have ensnared many of his key lieutenants — several of whom have either left or been forced to resign as Hizzoner's legal troubles mount.

1 h

nypost.com

Bird flu kills 47 tigers, 3 lions and a panther in Vietnam zoos

The World Health Organization says there have been increasing reports of deadly outbreaks among mammals caused by influenza viruses, including H5N1.

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cbsnews.com

Lady Gaga reveals ‘unorthodox’ way fiancé Michael Polansky proposed: ‘I’m a modern lady’

It couldn't be further from a Bad Romance.

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nypost.com

Revenge of the Office

Many of America’s corporate executives have had enough of the remote-work experiment.

2 h

theatlantic.com

High school football: Week 7 schedule for Oct. 10-12

Prep football: Week 7 schedule for Southland teams, Oct. 10-12.

2 h

latimes.com

Hey, presidential candidates, climate change would like a word

Hurricane Helene has destroyed parts of inland cities in the eastern U.S. Now will climate change be an issue in the presidential campaign?

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latimes.com

CBS contributor says 'civility' at the vice presidential debate was a 'mistake' for Walz

Former BET anchor Ed Gordon suggested the civility during the CBS News Vice Presidential Debate Tuesday could harm Democrats’ appeal to their base voters.

2 h

foxnews.com

WWE star Drew McIntyre says if company introduces mid-card women's title, it's 'absolutely justified'

WWE star Drew McIntyre supported the idea of a mid-card title coming to the women's division as the roster is filled with more talented wrestlers than ever.

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foxnews.com