Democrats’ Immigration Problem
Subscribe here: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket CastsIn the days after the election, Representative Ritchie Torres, who represents a district in the Bronx, piled onto the complaints about his party. He argued they are too responsive to the “far left” and have “managed to alienate historic numbers of Latinos.” They were spouting “ivory-towered nonsense” that the working class wasn’t buying. As a series of tweets, the theory is superficial. Kamala Harris—and even Joe Biden—have not been especially beholden to the far left, either in their policies or in their presentation. Harris did not lean into her identity nearly as much as, say, Hillary Clinton did in her campaign. And Bidenomics was aimed at the working and middle class.But Torres’s conviction, it turns out, comes from a deeper place. Torres is 36, Afro Latino, and represents a district that is more than 50 percent Latino and working class to poor. He grew up poor himself and did not graduate from college. It’s by now a very old stereotype, he says, to assume that Latinos are pro-immigration. In his experience, the perception of New York being overrun by undocumented immigrants is a preoccupation among his constituents, and ignoring their worries about this issue, and the state of the economy, is what he believes caused urban neighborhoods to shift rightward.In this episode of Radio Atlantic, we hash out the “Democrats are too woke” theory and talk about Torres’s ideas of how the Democrats should change their approach to immigration.The following is a transcript of the episode:Hanna Rosin: Donald Trump lost New York, like everyone thought he would. So that’s not news. What is, though, is how much better he did in the city than last time. Manhattan moved to the right by five points, Brooklyn by six, Queens, where I grew up, by 11—11 points! As my Trump-voting brother bragged to me: “It was a shellacking.”I’m Hanna Rosin. This is Radio Atlantic. New York, Miami, Chicago, Philly, Dallas, Detroit all shifted right. Trump’s message seemed to especially land in urban, working-class neighborhoods, where immigrants and people of color live.Now, there are lots of reasons the country shifted rightward, and we’ll probably be talking about them for a while. But these are neighborhoods that have voted reliably Democratic. So the shift is noticeable and surprising, although not to this person.Ritchie Torres: For me, the far left is a gift to Donald Trump. And it will be the gift that will keep on giving until there’s a serious reckoning with the results of the election.Rosin: This is Congressman Ritchie Torres. He represents a district in the Bronx, which, by the way, shifted right by 11 points. He, like many people, has a theory for why Trump won.The day after the election, he tweeted: “Donald Trump has no greater friend than the far left, which has managed to alienate historic numbers of Latinos, Blacks, Asians, and Jews from the Democratic Party with absurdities like ‘Defund the Police’ or ‘From the River to the Sea’ or ‘Latinx.’ … The working class is not buying the ivory-towered nonsense that the far left is selling.”Now, this is not an original take. Lots of people last week were screaming at the Democrats some version of “woke is broke”—that’s how Maureen Dowd put it, at least. But Torres has some authority on the subject that other people lack: He’s young—36. He’s Afro Latino. He’s gay. He grew up poor. And he didn’t finish college.He’s also a proud Democrat representing a district that’s over 50 percent Latino. To him, what happened seems pretty obvious.Torres: You know, the main reason we lost was inflation and immigration. And on the subject of immigration, I do believe we swung the pendulum too far to the left.Rosin: When I think of Kamala Harris, I don’t necessarily think far left. I mean, she talked about being a prosecutor. She was measured on her Israel-Gaza positions. Her position on the border got more moderate. So far left does not necessarily, to me, describe what happened in the last election.Torres: I am not suggesting that Kamala Harris is far left. So take as an example, “defund the police.” It was never the case that the majority of the Democratic Party endorsed “defund the police,” but the far left has an outsized microphone and, therefore, has an outsized impact in defining the image of the Democratic Party in the public mind.Rosin: And you don’t think that’s because the far left is exaggerated by the right? I mean, that the right has a megaphone making it seem like the far left is the Democratic Party when neither Kamala Harris nor Joe Biden are especially far left or advocate far-left policies?Torres: Can you make that argument with respect to immigration?Rosin: Yeah, immigration is an exception. You’re right about that. I mean, I was thinking about—Torres: It’s the exception that cost us the election.Rosin: Yeah. I was thinking about working-class policies because if I think about actual policies—because you talk a lot about policies versus messaging—Torres: We have prosecutors in America who have swung the pendulum too far to the left and have been rejected by voters in blue states.Rosin: Mm-hmm.Torres: So we can blame the voters. We can claim that the voters are misogynist and white supremacist. We could blame Fox News and the New York Post. But those institutions have always been with us in recent political history.Rosin: Although never as mobilized as they are now. I mean, there is a concerted effort to make the Democrats seem like its most extreme version, and that effort is well funded, well coordinated, and very effective.Torres: I’ll take an example of the issue of Israel, right? I’m known to be strongly pro-Israel.Rosin: Right.Torres: There’s not a Republican in the country that could caricature me as anti- Israel because I make it crystal clear where I stand. And rule No. 1 in politics is: If you do not define clearly what you stand for, others will define it for you. And I often feel like the image of the party is defined not by the center left, which is the heart of the party, but either by the far right, in the form of the New York Post and Fox News, or the far left.Rosin: So where do you stand? What would you say publicly and loudly about where the Democratic Party should be?Torres: The Democratic Party should stop pandering to a far left that is far more representative of Twitter and TikTok than it is of the real world. And it should start listening to working-class people of color. And we have to take positions that are aligned with the priorities of working-class people of color.Look—take the issue of immigration. I’m strongly pro-immigration. For me, the more the merrier. I see immigration as the driver of entrepreneurial and the essential workforce of America. But I’m also self-aware enough to know that I’m considerably to the left of the country. And you have to meet people where they are.You cannot impose your ideology on the majority of the American people. You know, as elected officials, we are constrained by public opinion.Rosin: This rightward drift we now know in New York happened in Washington Heights, the West Bronx, Queens, which is where I grew up. It’s working-class communities of color. So how do you explain that? Is it all immigration? What is that?Torres: Look—for me, what was most troubling was not only the fact that Donald Trump won but how he won. Not only did he crack the blue wall in the industrial Midwest, but he’s beginning to crack the blue wall in urban America. You know, he came within five points of winning New Jersey.Rosin: Right.Torres: He came within 12 points of winning New York. He won nearly 30 percent of the vote in the Bronx, which is one of the most Democratic and Latino counties in America. And keep in mind that the trends that we are seeing unfold long predate the 2024 election. Donald Trump made inroads among voters of color, particularly Latinos, in the 2020 election. And he decisively built on those gains in the 2024 election, but he did not begin those gains in the 2024 election.Rosin: So you think it’s police and immigration?Torres: The main reason is inflation and immigration and public safety. But on the subject of inflation, we were a victim of circumstances—like, supply-chain disruptions during COVID led to high inflation. And when you’re the incumbent party in power, you’re blamed for what happens, fairly or unfairly. And to be blamed for inflation is a political death sentence. So that, to me, is not the fault of the party. Inflation is a global phenomenon with global causes. But immigration is different. I do feel there was political malpractice that led to our loss of credibility on the issue of immigration.You know, since 2022, there has been an unprecedented wave of migration, whose impact was felt not only at the border but in cities like New York, where the shelter system and the social safety net and municipal finances were completely overwhelmed. You know, in December of 2023, Quinnipiac reported that 85 percent of New Yorkers were concerned about the impact of the migrant crisis on New York City.Despite clear signs of popular discontent, the Biden administration waited two and a half years before issuing an executive order regulating migration at the border. And by then it was too late. The political damage had been done. The Republicans had successfully weaponized the issue against us.Rosin: Okay. This is helpful. Your critiques come across on Twitter as broad critiques, the sort of general, broad critique that we don’t speak to the working class. And there are parts of that that don’t totally make sense to me, but I think you’re narrowing that to a couple of specific and important issues.Torres: Well, I think if you—first, it’s Twitter, so I’m constrained by the limits of tweets. But I would recommend that you read all the commentary I’ve made, not simply one tweet that gained more than 3 million views. The first tweet I sent out was about just the complicated electoral environment that we were entering.Vice President Harris was at a structural disadvantage in an antiestablishment atmosphere. The majority of Americans disapproved of the Biden administration. The majority of Americans feel that America is on the wrong track or heading in the wrong direction. And the majority of Americans feel that they are worse off today than they were four years ago.That is an insurmountable challenge, no matter who’s the nominee, right? It’s about structural reality rather than individual personality. Now, we thought that Donald Trump was so radioactive that we could overcome that structural challenge, and we were wrong.Rosin: Did you think that, by the way? Did you also think that? Like, were you surprised?Torres: I’m shocked but not surprised. Like, I find Donald Trump’s victory to be shocking but not surprising, because, in recent electoral history, there is no precedent for an incumbent party winning a presidential election when more than 70 percent of Americans think the country is on the wrong track or headed in the wrong direction. And so in the end, it is not surprising that Trump fatigue was outweighed by the popular discontent over inflation and immigration.Rosin: After the break, I ask Torres how he thinks Democrats can rebuild after this loss.[Break]Rosin: Okay. So let’s turn to rebuilding. It seems genuinely difficult in 2024 to compile a Democratic Party that’s working-class voters plus urban, college-educated, mostly white liberals. Do you have any ideas or thoughts about how to stick those two coalitions together?Torres: I would look to New York as a success. I mean, New York was a profound disappointment in 2022. You know, Lee Zeldin was masterful at weaponizing the words of the far left against the Democratic Party, causing congressional losses in 2022. But in 2024, we had a resounding success.We took back nearly all the congressional seats that we had lost. We ran on the strength of strong candidates like Laura Gillen and Tom Suozzi and Josh Riley and Pat Ryan. And the common thread among all of them is that every one of them is a centrist or center-left Democrat. So for me, the lesson learned there is that the road to 270 electoral votes and the road to the congressional majority runs through center left, not the far left.Rosin: And can you say what center left sounds like? What is a center-left Democrat talking about? Are they talking about specific constituent issues? What does it look like to be responsive?Torres: Economically populist, right? We have to convey the sense that we’re fighting for working people and that we’re holding powerful interests accountable, right? And I think that’s where the left is onto something, right? I think what we should avoid are the excesses on issues like immigration or public safety, right?There should be nothing resembling “defund the police,” nothing resembling open borders. People do care about border security. People do care about public safety. We have to ensure that we’re on the center of those issues while doubling down on economic populism.Rosin: So weirdly, on a national level, like an Elizabeth Warren-ish message, it sounds like what you’re talking about. So when I think of real solutions to working-class problems, I think of breaking up monopolies, real strong consumer protections. But those are big-government policies, and big-government policies are not that popular. That approach doesn’t seem to really gain traction, even though it seems like the right policy solution.Torres: So much of politics is rhetorical, and I just feel like we have to give people the sense that we are fighting for them, right? And too often, people have the impression that we’re obsessed with a culture war. But I want to be clear: I continue to believe the main reasons we lost the election were inflation and immigration. And I disagree with Bernie Sanders’ critique. I do not think President Biden abandoned the working class. Legislation like the Inflation Reduction Act is meant to support working people. It’s meant to support America, but the benefits of the legislation in the short term are outweighed by the cost of inflation.Rosin: So can you say how you would talk about immigration or address immigration? Because for people who are not looking too closely, it feels a little counterintuitive that, you know, a majority say—Latino or people-of-color districts and voting class—their main issue is restrictions on immigration. It seems, on its face, to be a contradiction. Now, I’m sure when you get deeper, it isn’t.Torres: If you’re stereotyping Latinos, sure.Rosin: Yeah, exactly. So let’s get beneath the stereotype, and, like, how would you walk through that issue?Torres: Well, I mean, keep in mind that the most Latino county in America was Starr County, right at the border. In 2016, Hillary Clinton won it by 60 percentage points. And in 2024, Donald Trump won nearly 60 percent—a complete collapse of Latino support. Look—my view is that we do not have a messaging problem; we have a reality problem.When the migrant crisis was unfolding, we should have responded with the sense of urgency that the public demanded of us. The public saw it as a crisis. So it’s not a messaging problem. It’s a reality problem. When there is a crisis, when there’s an emergency, when there’s a metaphorical fire, we have to extinguish the fire. We have to do everything we can to extinguish the fire, or else we’re going to pay a price at the ballot box.Rosin: Although, it still surprises me that people would drift towards a leader who uses words like “mass deportation,” you know, or the whole “floating island of garbage” thing. Like, it still surprises me that that’s not an automatic “no.”Torres: Again, I’m appalled by it, but I’m self-aware enough to recognize that I’m considerably to the left of the rest of the country in immigration. And here’s the danger: If we swing the pendulum too far to the left on issues like immigration and public safety, we will risk a public reaction that will make our country more right wing, not less; more restrictionist on immigration, not less; more conservative on public safety, not less.Rosin: Got it. Okay. That makes sense. So how do you—Torres: I just want to illustrate this point further: Before the “defund the police” movement, Republicans were becoming more open to criminal-justice reform, right? Hakeem Jeffries, who’s going to be, eventually, the speaker of the House, negotiated a bipartisan criminal-justice-reform legislation. And then after the “defund the police” movement, any hope of bipartisanship on criminal justice has all but collapsed.Rosin: I see. So this is what you mean. You’re saying, The Democrats are allowing—or, by capitulating to some far-left language, are allowing—the Republicans to use the language against us. Like, they’re handing them a tool.Okay. I understand what you’re saying. Just as a model, can you just tell me how you talk to your constituents about immigration? So we know what your own personal feelings are. We know that you’re listening to what they’re saying. What’s the kind of language that the Democrats could have adopted and should adopt in the future about a touchy issue like immigration?Torres: I’m not clear the issue is language. I mean, I’m happy to answer the question, but I—Rosin: What kind of policies? Sorry. Yes, you’re right. What kind of policies?Torres: I mean, basic border security.Rosin: Just talk about that. Yeah.Torres: Like, so you cannot have a system where anyone anywhere can cross the border, declare asylum, and then remain here indefinitely.Rosin: Right.Torres: And there was a point at which the sheer number of people coming became overwhelming. Like, it put unprecedented strain on the shelter system and social safety net of New York City. And, you know, I know Mayor Adams came under severe criticism for excoriating the administration. But for me, the problem was not Mayor Adams complaining about the migrant crisis; the problem was the reality of the migrant crisis and the administration’s failure to address it with the urgency that the public demanded.Look—I feel if we return to the center left on both immigration and public safety, I’m cautiously optimistic that communities of color will naturally gravitate toward the Democratic Party as its natural home. That’s my belief.Rosin: Right.Torres: We have to meet people where they are, or there’s a limit to how far we can deviate from strongly held public sentiment on an issue like immigration.Rosin: Last thing I want to say is: Disinformation seems overwhelming—like, just overwhelming in a very, very coordinated way. How do you combat something like that? Like, no matter what you will say on immigration, there’ll be a disinformation campaign to skew it, turn it, whatever.Torres: Look—we do our best to speak out against disinformation, but I’m probably in the minority here. I’m not convinced we lost because of disinformation.Like, if you remove inflation and immigration from the table, we win the election. We win the election because Donald Trump’s net favorability has been chronically underwater. He is unpopular among most Americans, but he was seen as a change agent, as an alternative to a status quo marked by inflation and the migrant crisis. If you change the status quo, he no longer wins the election. That’s my belief.Rosin: Okay. All right. This has been really, really helpful. I really appreciate this. Thank you.Torres: Of course.Rosin: This episode of Radio Atlantic was produced by Kevin Townsend and edited by Claudine Ebeid. It was engineered by Rob Smierciak. Claudine Ebeid is the executive producer of Atlantic audio, and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor. I’m Hanna Rosin. Thank you for listening.
theatlantic.com
Democrats’ Immigration Problem
Subscribe here: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket CastsIn the days after the election, Representative Ritchie Torres, who represents a district in the Bronx, piled onto the complaints about his party. He argued they are too responsive to the “far left” and have “managed to alienate historic numbers of Latinos.” They were spouting “ivory-towered nonsense” that the working class wasn’t buying. As a series of tweets, the theory is superficial. Kamala Harris—and even Joe Biden—have not been especially beholden to the far left, either in their policies or in their presentation. Harris did not lean into her identity nearly as much as, say, Hillary Clinton did in her campaign. And Bidenomics was aimed at the working and middle class.But Torres’s conviction, it turns out, comes from a deeper place. Torres is 36, Afro Latino, and represents a district that is more than 50 percent Latino and working class to poor. He grew up poor himself and did not graduate from college. It’s by now a very old stereotype, he says, to assume that Latinos are pro-immigration. In his experience, the perception of New York being overrun by undocumented immigrants is a preoccupation among his constituents, and ignoring their worries about this issue, and the state of the economy, is what he believes caused urban neighborhoods to shift rightward.In this episode of Radio Atlantic, we hash out the “Democrats are too woke” theory and talk about Torres’s ideas of how the Democrats should change their approach to immigration.The following is a transcript of the episode:Hanna Rosin: Donald Trump lost New York, like everyone thought he would. So that’s not news. What is, though, is how much better he did in the city than last time. Manhattan moved to the right by five points, Brooklyn by six, Queens, where I grew up, by 11—11 points! As my Trump-voting brother bragged to me: “It was a shellacking.”I’m Hanna Rosin. This is Radio Atlantic. New York, Miami, Chicago, Philly, Dallas, Detroit all shifted right. Trump’s message seemed to especially land in urban, working-class neighborhoods, where immigrants and people of color live.Now, there are lots of reasons the country shifted rightward, and we’ll probably be talking about them for a while. But these are neighborhoods that have voted reliably Democratic. So the shift is noticeable and surprising, although not to this person.Ritchie Torres: For me, the far left is a gift to Donald Trump. And it will be the gift that will keep on giving until there’s a serious reckoning with the results of the election.Rosin: This is Congressman Ritchie Torres. He represents a district in the Bronx, which, by the way, shifted right by 11 points. He, like many people, has a theory for why Trump won.The day after the election, he tweeted: “Donald Trump has no greater friend than the far left, which has managed to alienate historic numbers of Latinos, Blacks, Asians, and Jews from the Democratic Party with absurdities like ‘Defund the Police’ or ‘From the River to the Sea’ or ‘Latinx.’ … The working class is not buying the ivory-towered nonsense that the far left is selling.”Now, this is not an original take. Lots of people last week were screaming at the Democrats some version of “woke is broke”—that’s how Maureen Dowd put it, at least. But Torres has some authority on the subject that other people lack: He’s young—36. He’s Afro Latino. He’s gay. He grew up poor. And he didn’t finish college.He’s also a proud Democrat representing a district that’s over 50 percent Latino. To him, what happened seems pretty obvious.Torres: You know, the main reason we lost was inflation and immigration. And on the subject of immigration, I do believe we swung the pendulum too far to the left.Rosin: When I think of Kamala Harris, I don’t necessarily think far left. I mean, she talked about being a prosecutor. She was measured on her Israel-Gaza positions. Her position on the border got more moderate. So far left does not necessarily, to me, describe what happened in the last election.Torres: I am not suggesting that Kamala Harris is far left. So take as an example, “defund the police.” It was never the case that the majority of the Democratic Party endorsed “defund the police,” but the far left has an outsized microphone and, therefore, has an outsized impact in defining the image of the Democratic Party in the public mind.Rosin: And you don’t think that’s because the far left is exaggerated by the right? I mean, that the right has a megaphone making it seem like the far left is the Democratic Party when neither Kamala Harris nor Joe Biden are especially far left or advocate far-left policies?Torres: Can you make that argument with respect to immigration?Rosin: Yeah, immigration is an exception. You’re right about that. I mean, I was thinking about—Torres: It’s the exception that cost us the election.Rosin: Yeah. I was thinking about working-class policies because if I think about actual policies—because you talk a lot about policies versus messaging—Torres: We have prosecutors in America who have swung the pendulum too far to the left and have been rejected by voters in blue states.Rosin: Mm-hmm.Torres: So we can blame the voters. We can claim that the voters are misogynist and white supremacist. We could blame Fox News and the New York Post. But those institutions have always been with us in recent political history.Rosin: Although never as mobilized as they are now. I mean, there is a concerted effort to make the Democrats seem like its most extreme version, and that effort is well funded, well coordinated, and very effective.Torres: I’ll take an example of the issue of Israel, right? I’m known to be strongly pro-Israel.Rosin: Right.Torres: There’s not a Republican in the country that could caricature me as anti- Israel because I make it crystal clear where I stand. And rule No. 1 in politics is: If you do not define clearly what you stand for, others will define it for you. And I often feel like the image of the party is defined not by the center left, which is the heart of the party, but either by the far right, in the form of the New York Post and Fox News, or the far left.Rosin: So where do you stand? What would you say publicly and loudly about where the Democratic Party should be?Torres: The Democratic Party should stop pandering to a far left that is far more representative of Twitter and TikTok than it is of the real world. And it should start listening to working-class people of color. And we have to take positions that are aligned with the priorities of working-class people of color.Look—take the issue of immigration. I’m strongly pro-immigration. For me, the more the merrier. I see immigration as the driver of entrepreneurial and the essential workforce of America. But I’m also self-aware enough to know that I’m considerably to the left of the country. And you have to meet people where they are.You cannot impose your ideology on the majority of the American people. You know, as elected officials, we are constrained by public opinion.Rosin: This rightward drift we now know in New York happened in Washington Heights, the West Bronx, Queens, which is where I grew up. It’s working-class communities of color. So how do you explain that? Is it all immigration? What is that?Torres: Look—for me, what was most troubling was not only the fact that Donald Trump won but how he won. Not only did he crack the blue wall in the industrial Midwest, but he’s beginning to crack the blue wall in urban America. You know, he came within five points of winning New Jersey.Rosin: Right.Torres: He came within 12 points of winning New York. He won nearly 30 percent of the vote in the Bronx, which is one of the most Democratic and Latino counties in America. And keep in mind that the trends that we are seeing unfold long predate the 2024 election. Donald Trump made inroads among voters of color, particularly Latinos, in the 2020 election. And he decisively built on those gains in the 2024 election, but he did not begin those gains in the 2024 election.Rosin: So you think it’s police and immigration?Torres: The main reason is inflation and immigration and public safety. But on the subject of inflation, we were a victim of circumstances—like, supply-chain disruptions during COVID led to high inflation. And when you’re the incumbent party in power, you’re blamed for what happens, fairly or unfairly. And to be blamed for inflation is a political death sentence. So that, to me, is not the fault of the party. Inflation is a global phenomenon with global causes. But immigration is different. I do feel there was political malpractice that led to our loss of credibility on the issue of immigration.You know, since 2022, there has been an unprecedented wave of migration, whose impact was felt not only at the border but in cities like New York, where the shelter system and the social safety net and municipal finances were completely overwhelmed. You know, in December of 2023, Quinnipiac reported that 85 percent of New Yorkers were concerned about the impact of the migrant crisis on New York City.Despite clear signs of popular discontent, the Biden administration waited two and a half years before issuing an executive order regulating migration at the border. And by then it was too late. The political damage had been done. The Republicans had successfully weaponized the issue against us.Rosin: Okay. This is helpful. Your critiques come across on Twitter as broad critiques, the sort of general, broad critique that we don’t speak to the working class. And there are parts of that that don’t totally make sense to me, but I think you’re narrowing that to a couple of specific and important issues.Torres: Well, I think if you—first, it’s Twitter, so I’m constrained by the limits of tweets. But I would recommend that you read all the commentary I’ve made, not simply one tweet that gained more than 3 million views. The first tweet I sent out was about just the complicated electoral environment that we were entering.Vice President Harris was at a structural disadvantage in an antiestablishment atmosphere. The majority of Americans disapproved of the Biden administration. The majority of Americans feel that America is on the wrong track or heading in the wrong direction. And the majority of Americans feel that they are worse off today than they were four years ago.That is an insurmountable challenge, no matter who’s the nominee, right? It’s about structural reality rather than individual personality. Now, we thought that Donald Trump was so radioactive that we could overcome that structural challenge, and we were wrong.Rosin: Did you think that, by the way? Did you also think that? Like, were you surprised?Torres: I’m shocked but not surprised. Like, I find Donald Trump’s victory to be shocking but not surprising, because, in recent electoral history, there is no precedent for an incumbent party winning a presidential election when more than 70 percent of Americans think the country is on the wrong track or headed in the wrong direction. And so in the end, it is not surprising that Trump fatigue was outweighed by the popular discontent over inflation and immigration.Rosin: After the break, I ask Torres how he thinks Democrats can rebuild after this loss.[Break]Rosin: Okay. So let’s turn to rebuilding. It seems genuinely difficult in 2024 to compile a Democratic Party that’s working-class voters plus urban, college-educated, mostly white liberals. Do you have any ideas or thoughts about how to stick those two coalitions together?Torres: I would look to New York as a success. I mean, New York was a profound disappointment in 2022. You know, Lee Zeldin was masterful at weaponizing the words of the far left against the Democratic Party, causing congressional losses in 2022. But in 2024, we had a resounding success.We took back nearly all the congressional seats that we had lost. We ran on the strength of strong candidates like Laura Gillen and Tom Suozzi and Josh Riley and Pat Ryan. And the common thread among all of them is that every one of them is a centrist or center-left Democrat. So for me, the lesson learned there is that the road to 270 electoral votes and the road to the congressional majority runs through center left, not the far left.Rosin: And can you say what center left sounds like? What is a center-left Democrat talking about? Are they talking about specific constituent issues? What does it look like to be responsive?Torres: Economically populist, right? We have to convey the sense that we’re fighting for working people and that we’re holding powerful interests accountable, right? And I think that’s where the left is onto something, right? I think what we should avoid are the excesses on issues like immigration or public safety, right?There should be nothing resembling “defund the police,” nothing resembling open borders. People do care about border security. People do care about public safety. We have to ensure that we’re on the center of those issues while doubling down on economic populism.Rosin: So weirdly, on a national level, like an Elizabeth Warren-ish message, it sounds like what you’re talking about. So when I think of real solutions to working-class problems, I think of breaking up monopolies, real strong consumer protections. But those are big-government policies, and big-government policies are not that popular. That approach doesn’t seem to really gain traction, even though it seems like the right policy solution.Torres: So much of politics is rhetorical, and I just feel like we have to give people the sense that we are fighting for them, right? And too often, people have the impression that we’re obsessed with a culture war. But I want to be clear: I continue to believe the main reasons we lost the election were inflation and immigration. And I disagree with Bernie Sanders’ critique. I do not think President Biden abandoned the working class. Legislation like the Inflation Reduction Act is meant to support working people. It’s meant to support America, but the benefits of the legislation in the short term are outweighed by the cost of inflation.Rosin: So can you say how you would talk about immigration or address immigration? Because for people who are not looking too closely, it feels a little counterintuitive that, you know, a majority say—Latino or people-of-color districts and voting class—their main issue is restrictions on immigration. It seems, on its face, to be a contradiction. Now, I’m sure when you get deeper, it isn’t.Torres: If you’re stereotyping Latinos, sure.Rosin: Yeah, exactly. So let’s get beneath the stereotype, and, like, how would you walk through that issue?Torres: Well, I mean, keep in mind that the most Latino county in America was Starr County, right at the border. In 2016, Hillary Clinton won it by 60 percentage points. And in 2024, Donald Trump won nearly 60 percent—a complete collapse of Latino support. Look—my view is that we do not have a messaging problem; we have a reality problem.When the migrant crisis was unfolding, we should have responded with the sense of urgency that the public demanded of us. The public saw it as a crisis. So it’s not a messaging problem. It’s a reality problem. When there is a crisis, when there’s an emergency, when there’s a metaphorical fire, we have to extinguish the fire. We have to do everything we can to extinguish the fire, or else we’re going to pay a price at the ballot box.Rosin: Although, it still surprises me that people would drift towards a leader who uses words like “mass deportation,” you know, or the whole “floating island of garbage” thing. Like, it still surprises me that that’s not an automatic “no.”Torres: Again, I’m appalled by it, but I’m self-aware enough to recognize that I’m considerably to the left of the rest of the country in immigration. And here’s the danger: If we swing the pendulum too far to the left on issues like immigration and public safety, we will risk a public reaction that will make our country more right wing, not less; more restrictionist on immigration, not less; more conservative on public safety, not less.Rosin: Got it. Okay. That makes sense. So how do you—Torres: I just want to illustrate this point further: Before the “defund the police” movement, Republicans were becoming more open to criminal-justice reform, right? Hakeem Jeffries, who’s going to be, eventually, the speaker of the House, negotiated a bipartisan criminal-justice-reform legislation. And then after the “defund the police” movement, any hope of bipartisanship on criminal justice has all but collapsed.Rosin: I see. So this is what you mean. You’re saying, The Democrats are allowing—or, by capitulating to some far-left language, are allowing—the Republicans to use the language against us. Like, they’re handing them a tool.Okay. I understand what you’re saying. Just as a model, can you just tell me how you talk to your constituents about immigration? So we know what your own personal feelings are. We know that you’re listening to what they’re saying. What’s the kind of language that the Democrats could have adopted and should adopt in the future about a touchy issue like immigration?Torres: I’m not clear the issue is language. I mean, I’m happy to answer the question, but I—Rosin: What kind of policies? Sorry. Yes, you’re right. What kind of policies?Torres: I mean, basic border security.Rosin: Just talk about that. Yeah.Torres: Like, so you cannot have a system where anyone anywhere can cross the border, declare asylum, and then remain here indefinitely.Rosin: Right.Torres: And there was a point at which the sheer number of people coming became overwhelming. Like, it put unprecedented strain on the shelter system and social safety net of New York City. And, you know, I know Mayor Adams came under severe criticism for excoriating the administration. But for me, the problem was not Mayor Adams complaining about the migrant crisis; the problem was the reality of the migrant crisis and the administration’s failure to address it with the urgency that the public demanded.Look—I feel if we return to the center left on both immigration and public safety, I’m cautiously optimistic that communities of color will naturally gravitate toward the Democratic Party as its natural home. That’s my belief.Rosin: Right.Torres: We have to meet people where they are, or there’s a limit to how far we can deviate from strongly held public sentiment on an issue like immigration.Rosin: Last thing I want to say is: Disinformation seems overwhelming—like, just overwhelming in a very, very coordinated way. How do you combat something like that? Like, no matter what you will say on immigration, there’ll be a disinformation campaign to skew it, turn it, whatever.Torres: Look—we do our best to speak out against disinformation, but I’m probably in the minority here. I’m not convinced we lost because of disinformation.Like, if you remove inflation and immigration from the table, we win the election. We win the election because Donald Trump’s net favorability has been chronically underwater. He is unpopular among most Americans, but he was seen as a change agent, as an alternative to a status quo marked by inflation and the migrant crisis. If you change the status quo, he no longer wins the election. That’s my belief.Rosin: Okay. All right. This has been really, really helpful. I really appreciate this. Thank you.Torres: Of course.Rosin: This episode of Radio Atlantic was produced by Kevin Townsend and edited by Claudine Ebeid. It was engineered by Rob Smierciak. Claudine Ebeid is the executive producer of Atlantic audio, and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor. I’m Hanna Rosin. Thank you for listening.
